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How important was Cliff Burton to Metallica?
Posted on 12/8/23 at 5:20 pm
Posted on 12/8/23 at 5:20 pm
So I’ve always enjoyed Metallica’s music, and consider myself a fan, more of a casual fan. My question for the hardcore Metallica fans today is this: how crucial was Cliff Burton to Metallica’s sound and do you feel they changed their sound more and more after his death because of his absence?
I think this question has been posed before, but if Cliff had lived, would Metallica have gone the Load and Re-Load route?
My question mainly is how much did Cliff Burton bring to the table when it came to Metallica’s success and signature sound?
I think this question has been posed before, but if Cliff had lived, would Metallica have gone the Load and Re-Load route?
My question mainly is how much did Cliff Burton bring to the table when it came to Metallica’s success and signature sound?
9
Posted on 12/8/23 at 5:37 pm to SaintlyTiger88
Hetfield and Ulrich wrote almost everything but Burton was a big influence. Metallica has always been willing to try new things so I think something like Load and Reload were inevitable next steps after the black album.
Posted on 12/8/23 at 5:58 pm to SaintlyTiger88
Think Zepplin if Jon Paul Jones died after LZ 2.
Maybe he makes Lars a better drummer because he’s a better musician? Maybe Lars is dickish to anybody.
Load and reload were 15 years? After his death? They’d have went somewhere different. Even Cliff would’ve mellowed out at some point. Or he’d have become a cartoon of himself by this point. Just a bunch of old stories with the same style?
Maybe he makes Lars a better drummer because he’s a better musician? Maybe Lars is dickish to anybody.
Load and reload were 15 years? After his death? They’d have went somewhere different. Even Cliff would’ve mellowed out at some point. Or he’d have become a cartoon of himself by this point. Just a bunch of old stories with the same style?
Posted on 12/8/23 at 6:00 pm to SaintlyTiger88
quote:
but if Cliff had lived, would Metallica have gone the Load and Re-Load route?
nope,but I do think if you take the good stuff off Load and Reload and just made one album, it would have been killer
Posted on 12/8/23 at 7:12 pm to SaintlyTiger88
Cliff was a big part of Metallica. His bass sound was some of the best metal bass playing at that time period.
If Cliff were alive today, hopefully he would have left Metallica before the Black album and joined Dave Mustaine in Megadeth.
If Cliff were alive today, hopefully he would have left Metallica before the Black album and joined Dave Mustaine in Megadeth.
Posted on 12/8/23 at 8:38 pm to SaintlyTiger88
What would have happened with Metallica if Cliff Burton had lived has always been the big question with die hard Metallica fans. In my opinion(which in the big scheme of things means absolutely nothing) Cliff Burton in 1986 would have totally been down with the And Justice For All album but never would have let the Black Album happen. But we will truly never know.
Can any of you seriously picture Cliff Burton halfway through the show having to slow down & play Nothing Else Matters & then ending the show with Enter Sandman on a nightly basis?
Can any of you seriously picture Cliff Burton halfway through the show having to slow down & play Nothing Else Matters & then ending the show with Enter Sandman on a nightly basis?
This post was edited on 12/8/23 at 8:46 pm
Posted on 12/8/23 at 8:52 pm to Hetfield
quote:
but never would have let the Black Album happen. But we will truly never know
He could have made it better?
Everybody hates they did a ballad. Your main songwriter has a ballad in his head, you do a ballad. All bands have to change. Back to Zepplin. Could you see Whole Lotta Love guys writing Fool in the Rain?
We (I should say “I”) have no idea what tickled Cliffs pickle musically. They created speed metal or were a major part of its creation. Cliffs influences weren’t speed metal. Or Thrash maybe more accurate. You reach the top and you get to indulge. The great ones do. And yes it leaves you with some head scratchers. But one guys head scratcher is my Fool in The Rain. Or a Bob Seger Cover!!!?
Posted on 12/8/23 at 8:53 pm to Hetfield
The metal fans called Metallica sell outs for doing Fade to Black. I'm sure Cliff would have been fine with Nothing Else Matters.
Posted on 12/8/23 at 10:36 pm to SaintlyTiger88
Many diehard Metallica fans claim the Load era may have happened even sooner had Cliff lived, as he was said to be a big fan of bands like Skynyrd and Thin Lizzy, among others.
Those who knew Cliff say he was far from one-dimensional in his musical tastes and even listened to classical stuff.
I feel anyone who thinks Metallica makes Puppets a dozen times over of Cliff lives is mistaken.
Those who knew Cliff say he was far from one-dimensional in his musical tastes and even listened to classical stuff.
I feel anyone who thinks Metallica makes Puppets a dozen times over of Cliff lives is mistaken.
Posted on 12/10/23 at 8:14 pm to SaintlyTiger88
Hetfield in load and reload was astounding.
I don’t understand what happened. He went from a phenomenal Metal vocalist and the greatest most accurate rhythm player ever to a mediocre generic alternative rock douche. Bizarre.
And they never recovered. Ever. I’m not sure there is a band in this history of music that peaked harder than Metallica did with And Justice for All. You could make a solid argument they peaked with Master of Puppets and then Burton was gone. And I say this as a fan that considers Metallica in his Mount Rushmore of favorite bands.
Most people to this day go to Metallica concerts to hear music from the first 3 albums i.e. Mustain and Burton.
I don’t understand what happened. He went from a phenomenal Metal vocalist and the greatest most accurate rhythm player ever to a mediocre generic alternative rock douche. Bizarre.
And they never recovered. Ever. I’m not sure there is a band in this history of music that peaked harder than Metallica did with And Justice for All. You could make a solid argument they peaked with Master of Puppets and then Burton was gone. And I say this as a fan that considers Metallica in his Mount Rushmore of favorite bands.
Most people to this day go to Metallica concerts to hear music from the first 3 albums i.e. Mustain and Burton.
This post was edited on 12/10/23 at 8:46 pm
Posted on 12/11/23 at 3:58 pm to Breesus
quote:Nah. Some of their best work is on the Loads.
Hetfield in load and reload was astounding.
I don’t understand what happened. He went from a phenomenal Metal vocalist and the greatest most accurate rhythm player ever to a mediocre generic alternative rock douche. Bizarre.
quote:Weird that you don't like Death Magnetic or Garage Inc.
And they never recovered. Ever. I’m not sure there is a band in this history of music that peaked harder than Metallica did with And Justice for All. You could make a solid argument they peaked with Master of Puppets and then Burton was gone. And I say this as a fan that considers Metallica in his Mount Rushmore of favorite bands.
quote:This is flat out false. I can guarantee you the majority are there to hear stuff off of Black.
Most people to this day go to Metallica concerts to hear music from the first 3 albums i.e. Mustain and Burton.
Posted on 12/11/23 at 3:59 pm to Hetfield
quote:Sure I can. Cliff was an artist who valued evolution and experimentation.
Can any of you seriously picture Cliff Burton halfway through the show having to slow down & play Nothing Else Matters & then ending the show with Enter Sandman on a nightly basis?
Posted on 12/11/23 at 5:28 pm to Big Scrub TX
I think people who just Master of Puppets rehashed over and over again aren't really fans of the band. Metallica is as big as they are because they've been willing to change and experiment. If you want the same thing over and over again just listen to Slayer.
Posted on 12/11/23 at 5:41 pm to SaintlyTiger88
Burton wrote For Whom The Bell Tolls, so unless you hate the song, he was a pretty important gear in the machine.
Posted on 12/11/23 at 6:49 pm to Big Scrub TX
Hell, Im liking If Darkness Had a Son more and more. A slower tempo but I love the riff.
Posted on 12/11/23 at 7:42 pm to prplhze2000
quote:72 Seasons is a quite solid album.
Hell, Im liking If Darkness Had a Son more and more. A slower tempo but I love the riff.
Posted on 12/11/23 at 7:44 pm to Brosef Stalin
quote:It seems crazy to me that people "don't like" songs like The God That Failed, My Friend of Misery, Bleeding Me and The Day That Never Comes (to name but a few). MUH FIRST 3 ALBUMS!!
I think people who just Master of Puppets rehashed over and over again aren't really fans of the band. Metallica is as big as they are because they've been willing to change and experiment. If you want the same thing over and over again just listen to Slayer.
Posted on 12/11/23 at 8:56 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
The God That Failed
One of my favorite Hammett solos. The interplay between him and Lars is perfect.
Posted on 12/12/23 at 1:21 pm to SaintlyTiger88
Early production was terrible at bringing the bass out on a mastered album. You could barely hear Cliff. Newsted put Metallica in the stratosphere as far as production sound.
Posted on 12/12/23 at 1:48 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
I can guarantee you the majority are there to hear stuff off of Black.
Yeah, no way you sell out Stadiums without the Black album. I love the first four Metallica Albums and also love the Black Album. The Black Album is their masterpiece IMO and I love how "hardcore" Metallica fans run from it every chance they get. Who knew that Metallica fans were the most hipster of them all.
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