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re: Most Overrated Player In NBA History
Posted on 5/25/23 at 12:38 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 5/25/23 at 12:38 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
According to you, primarily b/c that helps your argument
That’s your rebuttal? I expected more.
What other season in NBA history gave teams an entire offseasons worth of rest and recovery (with the premise at least 60 days in that they would resume, so the players would keep in shape) a month long training camp, then start the postseason?
Name one that comes close.
This post was edited on 5/25/23 at 12:45 pm
1
Posted on 5/25/23 at 12:39 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Wut? How is it not harder to beat more and better teams?
Because if you don't add more teams the talent would be spread across the fewer number of teams. Therefore, the talent per team would increase, which would make it "harder" to win a championship. If you add more teams, the talent is diluted and the "best" players have a larger advantage.
ETA: if anyone has time to waste they can look through my post history before the bubble even started, I was arguing that it was a bs asterisk title before the tournament started
This post was edited on 5/25/23 at 12:43 pm
Posted on 5/25/23 at 12:40 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
My argument re: titles is that they're a team stat.
Winning at basketball is more than getting numbers. Which is why LeBron James is an all timer and Russell Westbrook isn’t close to the same tier.
This post was edited on 5/25/23 at 12:41 pm
Posted on 5/25/23 at 12:41 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
That’s your rebuttal? I expected more.
I've already made my point.
You're picking out an idiosyncratic qualifier b/c it helps your argument.
Then you are, not shockingly, using illogical "arguments" to pretend this is the only idiosyncratic qualifier that can be used.
When confronted about your bad argument, you don't respond and/or double down on self-sustaining irrationality.
quote:
What other season in NBA history gave teams an entire offseasons worth of rest and recovery (with the premise at least 60 days in that they would resume, so the players would keep in shape) a month long training camp, then start the postseason?
Prior to 2004-05, what other seasons had 30 teams?
Posted on 5/25/23 at 12:42 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:Lingering injuries to that point were not an issue for Lebron. To pretend, he would have been limping by the playoffs is just silly. Also, they had dudes playing low minutes that were old, but their core was Lebron and mid 20s dudes.
They were the second oldest team in the nba that season and their star was 35 years old.
AD is the only injury prone dude, but you said it like their entire team including Lebron was just always hurt, which wasn't the case. Rondo was old but didn't move the needle much. Green was 32, not terribly old. And Lebron, again, no one ever had an injury concern about him, so it's weird to think or assume he would have been injured or slowed up if the season went on as usual.
I think the huge advantage for the Lakers is just something people say, but when you actually look into it, it wasn't really much of a thing.
This post was edited on 5/25/23 at 12:43 pm
Posted on 5/25/23 at 12:43 pm to shel311
You also have to take into account that Russell was 6’10 in a league
Full of guys at 6’4 .
Full of guys at 6’4 .
Posted on 5/25/23 at 12:44 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You're picking out an idiosyncratic qualifier b/c it helps your argument.
To diminish an entire offseason worth of rest to an “idiosyncratic qualifier” between the regular season and postseason is an argument made in bad faith.
Please by all means, list something that comes close.
Posted on 5/25/23 at 12:44 pm to shel311
quote:
Lingering injuries to that point were not an issue for Lebron
Except for playing 55 games the prior season?
It's a fact that they were the second oldest team in the nba that season and their star was 35 years old.
Posted on 5/25/23 at 12:45 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
Winning at basketball is more than getting numbers
Advanced statistics are getting pretty good at showing which numbers/plays leads to winning.
Winning titles requires too many variables to put on one person, even in basketball. Teammates, injuries (to the player and teammates), other teams, etc. impact winning more than any one player can.
That's why if you're using "winning", a broader perspective is needed. What's the average team win total? Playoffs made? Times in each round, etc. are all more well-rounded variables to form a bigger picture to judge.
Posted on 5/25/23 at 12:45 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:Now do the same equation with the overwhelming majority of the talent being on just 1 of 8 teams.
Because if you don't add more teams the talent would be spread across the fewer number of teams. Therefore, the talent per team would increase, which would make it "harder" to win a championship. If you add more teams, the talent is diluted and the "best" players have a larger advantage.
Again, you seem to be arguing in general with no context, but once you add in the context, I don't see how there's a logical argument that titles won by Lebron or Kobe or MJ were easier than titles won by Russell because Russell had to go through 7 teams, which made it harder.
Posted on 5/25/23 at 12:45 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
idiosyncratic
Is a subjective term
Posted on 5/25/23 at 12:46 pm to shel311
quote:
Again, you seem to be arguing in general with no context, but once you add in the context, I don't see how there's a logical argument that titles won by Lebron or Kobe or MJ were easier than titles won by Russell because Russell had to go through 7 teams, which made it harder.
Again, I don't give a shite about the Russell argument. I'm arguing against the retarded argument by SFP that Jordan never won a title with 30 teams in the league
Posted on 5/25/23 at 12:47 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:
If that's the case, what's the point in having an 82 game regular season? Why not just have 2-4 weeks of seeding games, and then have the playoffs?
There were only 10 less games played overall during the covid season.
Posted on 5/25/23 at 12:49 pm to c on z
quote:
There were only 10 less games played overall during the covid season.
It was essentially two seasons because the gap between the regular season and the bubble was as long as an NBA offseason
Posted on 5/25/23 at 12:52 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Advanced statistics are getting pretty good at showing which numbers/plays leads to winning.
To a degree. Defense metrics still aren’t perfect. But no stat it.
quote:
Winning titles requires too many variables to put on one person, even in basketball. Teammates, injuries (to the player and teammates), other teams, etc. impact winning more than any one player can.
yes basketball is the one major American sport where one player has the biggest impact on winning by a wide margin. Which is why winning is held in higher regards in the NBA than MLB. Why Trout is considered an all timer, and the Angels are terrible.
quote:
That's why if you're using "winning", a broader perspective is needed. What's the average team win total? Playoffs made? Times in each round, etc. are all more well-rounded variables to form a bigger picture to judge.
And when you get to the elite tier of basketball players, winning matters to judge said bigger picture. With the bubble being grossly different than any other time in nba history, it can not be included.
This post was edited on 5/25/23 at 2:01 pm
Posted on 5/25/23 at 12:54 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:They were also arguably the healthiest team in the NBA when teh season stopped, Their entire team was healthy. In fact, the last game before the season stopped, the only 2 dudes that got a DNP were Quinn Cook and Jared Dudley...all those dudes were playing.
It's a fact that they were the second oldest team in the nba that season and their star was 35 years old.
Sure, there's some wear and tear that the season stoppage helped them with, just like the other teams. But there were other teams with actual injuries to their rotation with 1 or more dudes out. That is wayyyyy more of advantage to get guys who are actually out back and playing then for guys already healthy playing to get extra rest.
They were healthy at the stoppage.
Posted on 5/25/23 at 12:56 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:What you're missing is that is not really his argument, it's to show how the other poster's argument is a failed argument. And the point was valid regarding qualifiers, as it was certainly easier for Russell to win with only 8 teams. You can say you don't care about Russell, but that's the entire point, so I'm not sure why you keep replying if you don't care about the reasoning behind saying that.
Again, I don't give a shite about the Russell argument. I'm arguing against the retarded argument by SFP that Jordan never won a title with 30 teams in the league
Posted on 5/25/23 at 12:58 pm to shel311
quote:
They were also arguably the healthiest team in the NBA when teh season stopped, Their entire team was healthy.
So, you're saying they were due for an injury or 2?
Posted on 5/25/23 at 12:59 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:Touche!
So, you're saying they were due for an injury or 2?
Posted on 5/25/23 at 1:00 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:
So, you're saying they were due for an injury or 2?
Correct. ADs injury history alone would predict something to happen, without the 140+ days of rest. Same for Zion although we didn’t know that at the time.
This post was edited on 5/25/23 at 1:02 pm
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