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Message
Massad Ayoob makes a case for carrying with safety...
Posted on 4/23/23 at 10:16 pm
Posted on 4/23/23 at 10:16 pm
YouTube Short
essentially, if you were somehow disarmed from a bad guy, here's the average time it would take them to shoot you with it:
Revolver - 1.2 seconds
Semi-Auto w/ Safety - 16.8 seconds
the argument is that it takes longer for the bad guy to figure out how to engage the weapon. most semi-autos have 2 levers (slide lever / safety lever if it was made with one). 1911 styles have 4 (slide / thumb safety / grip safety / hammer if it isn't cocked).
essentially, if you were somehow disarmed from a bad guy, here's the average time it would take them to shoot you with it:
Revolver - 1.2 seconds
Semi-Auto w/ Safety - 16.8 seconds
the argument is that it takes longer for the bad guy to figure out how to engage the weapon. most semi-autos have 2 levers (slide lever / safety lever if it was made with one). 1911 styles have 4 (slide / thumb safety / grip safety / hammer if it isn't cocked).
Posted on 4/23/23 at 10:39 pm to finchmeister08
quote:
1911 styles have 4 (slide / thumb safety / grip safety / hammer if it isn't cocked).
Who the hell drops the hammer on a 1911 with a round in the chamber?
Posted on 4/23/23 at 10:45 pm to civiltiger07
I'm not taking advice from a guy who carries a 1911 as his concealed option on purpose.
Posted on 4/24/23 at 6:00 am to civiltiger07
That can go both ways. In the old police academy textbook
Street Survivor : Tactics for Armed Encounters
there is a photo of a uniformed officer in the grocery store sprawled out with a gsw in the throat.
The caption below reads ,
“ this officer died because he was unfamiliar with an automatic “
The whole premise in training is
Repetition develops instinct , so, when the shtf, you automatically act without thinking. Same with those safeties.
We shot for weeks, every day. At the 2 yard mark, upon the bell tone, you will take one step back, draw and fire two rounds from ready gun, then step forward and reholster.
Over and over , every day for over a week.
Years later i realized why. They were developing instinct. Had a dude resist during handcuffing, reached and picked up his rifle from the ground. I realized that i automatically did the one step back and drew. Luckily for him, i noticed that his hands were not near the trigger area. He fled. Picked him up on an escape warrant next day.
Street Survivor : Tactics for Armed Encounters
there is a photo of a uniformed officer in the grocery store sprawled out with a gsw in the throat.
The caption below reads ,
“ this officer died because he was unfamiliar with an automatic “
The whole premise in training is
Repetition develops instinct , so, when the shtf, you automatically act without thinking. Same with those safeties.
We shot for weeks, every day. At the 2 yard mark, upon the bell tone, you will take one step back, draw and fire two rounds from ready gun, then step forward and reholster.
Over and over , every day for over a week.
Years later i realized why. They were developing instinct. Had a dude resist during handcuffing, reached and picked up his rifle from the ground. I realized that i automatically did the one step back and drew. Luckily for him, i noticed that his hands were not near the trigger area. He fled. Picked him up on an escape warrant next day.
This post was edited on 4/24/23 at 6:08 am
Posted on 4/24/23 at 6:10 am to EF Hutton
The old school guys ( late 70’s, early 80’s) trained with those 1911’s and had developed that instinct to turn that safety off.
If you are going to carry an auto with safety on, you better be able to afford the ammo that it will take for you to shoot alot, to develop that instinct of turning off the safety.
The adrenaline, fear, suddenness of an encounter, you might forget to turn it off unless it is automatic instinct.
If you are going to carry an auto with safety on, you better be able to afford the ammo that it will take for you to shoot alot, to develop that instinct of turning off the safety.
The adrenaline, fear, suddenness of an encounter, you might forget to turn it off unless it is automatic instinct.
This post was edited on 4/24/23 at 6:15 am
Posted on 4/24/23 at 6:21 am to Jack Ruby
quote:
I'm not taking advice from a guy who carries a 1911 as his concealed option on purpose.
Best option for carry in a self defense situation because shooting twice is just stupid.
Posted on 4/24/23 at 7:11 am to finchmeister08
quote:
16.8 seconds
This is probably about how long it takes for folks who don't practice drawing to draw
Posted on 4/24/23 at 7:34 am to finchmeister08
quote:
essentially, if you were somehow disarmed from a bad guy, here's the average time it would take them to shoot you with it:
For a person that open carry’s I can see this as being a valid point. For myself I’m pretty sure that my gun will stay concealed and holstered until the point that I pull it and begin to shoot. If it has a safety I would sweep it at draw and not put back on safe. In that scenario the end result is the same, bad guy has a gun off of safety?!
Posted on 4/24/23 at 8:12 am to Ol boy
quote:
For a person that open carry’s I can see this as being a valid point.
This is a snip from a longer video discussing the pros and cons of a manual safety on Guns. The study he refers to is from the 80s done for law enforcement. So you’re right, it applies better to those who open carry, especially law enforcement.
The longer video is worth a watch. Do you need a manual safety on a handgun?
I think that as a citizen with a CCW, the concerns of weapon retention aren’t the same as a LEO, but it doesn’t mean you can’t end up in the same situation. I found this comment on the YouTube short:
quote:
One of my students in my CCW class had his life saved by the manual safety on his L9A1, a version of the Browning Hi-Power. Long story, but basically a criminal attempted to shoot him multiple times from a distance of about 10 feet. The safety saved his life.
Posted on 4/24/23 at 8:32 am to finchmeister08
quote:
if you were somehow disarmed from a bad guy,
Probably because he forgot the safety was on.
Posted on 4/24/23 at 8:37 am to finchmeister08
quote:
Massad Ayoob makes a case for carrying with safety
Massad knows his shite but pimping 1911’s while working for WC is just an infomercial. Don’t get me wrong I love 1911’s but to carry one effectively takes an enormous amount of trying to be proficient.
Posted on 4/24/23 at 9:43 am to lsufan1971
quote:
I love 1911’s but to carry one effectively takes an enormous amount of trying to be proficient.
I dont get this. I carry one with the hammer back and thumb safety on. All I have to do is drop the safety. I feel more confident than when I carry a Glock chambered with no safety. Only takes a nanosecond to flip the 1911 safety off.
Posted on 4/24/23 at 9:56 am to lsufan1971
Don't know much about this guy, but these old police types with 1980s skillsets have really gotten swallowed up by all the GWOT/special operations guys who are flooding the market now with extremely high level knowledge and mounds of real-world experience.
Posted on 4/24/23 at 9:59 am to TideHater
quote:
I carry one with the hammer back and thumb safety on.
you're more of a man than i am.
Posted on 4/24/23 at 10:02 am to TideHater
This.
I have a range in my backyard and simply practice the draw with a sport coat on. Don't even need to shoot...but I do.
I have a range in my backyard and simply practice the draw with a sport coat on. Don't even need to shoot...but I do.
Posted on 4/24/23 at 10:32 am to Jack Ruby
quote:
Don't know much about this guy, but these old police types with 1980s skillsets have really gotten swallowed up by all the GWOT/special operations guys who are flooding the market now with extremely high level knowledge and mounds of real-world experience.
Many do have real world experience. Police experience is different than modern civilian tactics. Police do Not train to look like a robot, pivoting as if on a turret, pulling & pushing the handgun from the chest. Thats modern civilian stuff.
Posted on 4/24/23 at 10:41 am to EF Hutton
quote:
Many do have real world experience. Police experience is different than modern civilian tactics. Police do Not train to look like a robot, pivoting as if on a turret, pulling & pushing the handgun from the chest. Thats modern civilian stuff.
Ayoob is a beast. He might be old but he knows his stuff. Two guys that trained me are students of his. I have watched several of his training videos. He is not out of touch at all.
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