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re: Why is Alec Baldwin responsible for murder?
Posted on 8/21/22 at 1:04 pm to VolcanicTiger
Posted on 8/21/22 at 1:04 pm to VolcanicTiger
quote:
but this isn't murder, and it wasn't a crime.
I don’t know when something crosses into criminal, but if what I’ve read is true he’s responsible for her death.
1. He’s the producer, he hired the woefully inadequate “armorer”.
2. They used a functioning firearm.
3. They had live rounds on the set and would plink at cans during off hours. With the gun that he would point at a person and pull the trigger.
That’s all I need to know. It was monumentally stupid to have a live round on that set if they just had to have a functioning firearm for realism or whatever, and I don’t buy that to begin with. Everybody on that set who consented these conditions should never, ever handle a firearm.
If he or anybody else just walked onto a movie set and pointed/pulled because an armorer told them it was safe, I’d be saying the armorer was responsible.
3
Posted on 8/21/22 at 3:07 pm to Flats
quote:In legal terms you need the mens rea (intent) and actus reus (the action). The actus reus is certain, but the intent is what is up for debate. He intended to pull the trigger, so it's kinda there, but he (as far as we know) didn't intend to shoot the gun. He doesn't need to intend to kill to qualify as a mens rea, he needs to intend to shoot a working (or reasonably possibly working) gun, which he most likely did not, and no reasonable jury could conclude that he did beyond reasonable doubt. If you shot someone with a water gun that someone else put acid into without your knowledge, you wouldn't be criminally negligent. "Ignorance of the law is no defense", but ignorance of fact is a defense.
I don’t know when something crosses into criminal, but if what I’ve read is true he’s responsible for her death.
Civil suits don't require the mens rea, so the victims' families could sue and have a good shot at winning, since the actus reus is pretty much beyond question now, and the burden shifts from "beyond reasonable doubt" to "the preponderance of the evidence" (i.e. it's more likely than not that he did it).
Posted on 8/21/22 at 3:16 pm to VolcanicTiger
quote:
he needs to intend to shoot a working (or reasonably possibly working) gun, which he most likely did not,
He did intend to shoot a possibly working gun, as he knew that there were live rounds used in that very gun on that very set. He knew this, and how it violated protocol, for which he was responsible as the boss, but he recklessly fired it anyway.
Posted on 8/21/22 at 3:21 pm to TigerOnTheMountain
quote:This may be the dumbest post thus far in August.
Who said anything about murder? It’s manslaughter as defined by the law. Even in Los Angeles where this will be tried so he gets a friendly jury.
Posted on 8/21/22 at 3:24 pm to AggieHank86
He killed her because she was about to expose child trafficking. Just like Anne Heches mysterious death while filming a movie in the same. And let’s not forget Avici, Chris Cornell, Chester Bennington. And Anthony Bourdain!!!
Posted on 8/21/22 at 3:24 pm to davyjones
quote:”Material mistake of fact” seems likely to make an appearance, in the unlikely event that criminal charges are ever filed.
I could see negligent homicide being the case, but definitely not intentional murder, unless some wild and unlikely new evidence crops up.
Posted on 8/21/22 at 3:24 pm to VolcanicTiger
quote:
but this isn't murder, and it wasn't a crime.
His reckless neglect actions directly cause the death of one and injury to another. He was criminally negligent and should be charged accordingly.
Posted on 8/21/22 at 3:35 pm to MRF
quote:He was one of something like a dozen assorted “producers“ on the film. It is not entirely clear what role or authority any of those folks may have had, especially as regards supervising the filming.
Alec was also her boss as the producer.
Posted on 8/21/22 at 3:37 pm to Godfather1
quote:And I am staggered by the number of people who seem to believe that alleged negligence would give rise to a murder conviction.
Because you treat every firearm as if it is loaded at all times and you never point a firearm at someone and pull the trigger.quote:
It staggers me the number of people on this board who wouldn’t be able to pass a concealed carry class.
Posted on 8/21/22 at 3:40 pm to BoarEd
quote:this keeps getting repeated, but I have seen absolutely nothing to establish it as being true.
No matter which way you cut it, Baldwin is guilty of negligent homicide / manslaughter. He was the producer. He was responsible for overseeing the completely reckless safety practices on the set. The buck stops with him. And he pulled the damn trigger.
I did fairly extensive research right after the shooting, and no one seems to have had any idea who was actually in charge of what on that set.
Posted on 8/21/22 at 3:42 pm to Ponchy Tiger
quote:Any civil suit might will be filed in Los Angeles, and I would not be surprised in the slightest to learn that multiple people posting in this thread do not understand the difference between a civil lawsuit and a criminal prosecution.
those that keep saying the LA DA will protect him or not charge him need just stop and remove themselves from this discussion.
Posted on 8/21/22 at 3:43 pm to thelawnwranglers
It was an accident. I know you all wanna hang the dude. I can't stand the douchebag myself... But obviously it was a terrible accident.
Alec Baldwin didn't set out to murder some grip that day.
Alec Baldwin didn't set out to murder some grip that day.
Posted on 8/21/22 at 3:44 pm to BoarEd
quote:You seem to have this all “figured out.” What was the motive for this elaborate scheme?
It seems to me that they set up a situation where they could plausibly make it look like an accident. Except it doesn't look like an accident.
Posted on 8/21/22 at 3:45 pm to Ponchy Tiger
quote:
Politics has nothing to do with any of this.
Posted on 8/21/22 at 3:47 pm to thelawnwranglers
quote:
Because you treat every firearm as if it is loaded at all times and you never point a firearm at someone and pull the trigger.
Sure but also you would think rule one no real bullets on set
Hell no real guns
It is really sad. I cannot tell you how many times over 30+ years covering in ER I have heard someone say I did not know it was loaded. I think that 99.9% of the individuals who have said this are telling the truth. Unfortunately, it usually leaves one person dead and the other having to carry this guilt for the rest of their lives.
Posted on 8/21/22 at 3:51 pm to EA6B
quote:100% wrong.
all accidents are caused by negligence in some form.
You clearly do not understand the legal concept og “negligence.”
Posted on 8/21/22 at 3:55 pm to Hopeful Doc
quote:None of which is incorporated into the criminal code.
Some general gun safety rules: Treat every gun like it’s loaded. Always keep a gun pointed in a safe direction. Don’t point at anything you don’t intend to kill. Shoot until the threat is no longer a threat (not really relevant to this situation, but if we are listing gun rules, then we should probably just list them all)
Being on a movie set doesn’t absolve you of safety rules. A gun is a gun. Be safe with it. Accept the risks. Go above and beyond to ensure safety if you plan on breaking the first 3 rules above.
Posted on 8/21/22 at 3:58 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
None of which is incorporated into the criminal code.
I'm starting to think he meant to. No one is as ignorant around firearms as he claims, while having spent so much time on sets around them.
You never ever point a gun at another person, but this a-hole even pulled the trigger, then lied to authorities about it.
Posted on 8/21/22 at 3:58 pm to Flats
quote:He was one of approximately a dozen “producers” on this film. Can you link to anything indicating that he was responsible for hiring?
He’s the producer, he hired the woefully inadequate “armorer”.
quote:Can you link to anything establishing that Baldwin was responsible for selecting the props?
They used a functioning firearm.
quote:Can you link to anything establishing that Baldwin was aware of this purported activity, or participated in it?
They had live rounds on the set and would plink at cans during off hours.
Posted on 8/21/22 at 4:00 pm to thelawnwranglers
He pulled the trigger while pointing at someone. If your cars kills someone during an accident why are you charged with manslaughter
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