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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 2/13/23 at 2:15 am to
Posted by Obtuse1
Westside Bodymore Yo
Member since Sep 2016
26107 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 2:15 am to
quote:

So what should the following armor have done?


Honestly, I do not know the armor battle drill for encountering mines specifically, maybe Segundo or Vader can elaborate.

First, they should fall back following their tracks. I suppose spinning around on an axis makes the most sense for speed. The last thing they want to do is go forward or stay in the area. Any obstacle should be covered by direct or indirect fire. If you stay there either the enemy will be close and open fire, preferably by taking out the rear vehicle, or a forward observer which could be a drone now will begin to direct indirect fire onto the tanks. The artillery in the area should already have accurate coordinates for the minefield.

So move back to a safer area and either call in the engineers or start prepping and carrying out your breaching operation yourself. They may have to do the latter since engineer assets are limited. Even the US military has limited engineer assets and I have seen little evidence of combat engineers in the combined arms of Russia. I saw some in the initial column headed to Kyiv but the lack of it on the battlefield indicates a lot of it may be lost. One general rule on the battlefield is shoot the funny stuff. Vehicles and material that looks different from the rest are there for some specific purpose, taking them out almost always has a bigger impact on the fighting ability of a unit than something there is a lot of. Engineer vehicles "look funny" so they get targeted. The only engineer assets I have seen operating on the battlefield for Russia are rear-echelon bridging and trenching machines.

How engineers or infantry would breach the field depends a lot on the type and size of the field and what assets are available. In a perfect world, you would have a MICLIC (mine clearing line charge) available and move it up to the start of the minefield. It fires an "explosive rope" out 100 meters and when it detonates it blows all the mines in a 100m x 8m lane using overpressure. The lane still has to be proofed and marked (not so much in heavy fire and/or during a time sensitive operation). A MICLIC requires fairly good control of the area which is not always available. Combat engineers often have a very dangerous job. One alternative is using an armored vehicle with a mine flail or mine rollers to clear a lane. Less effective but still can be used is a cluster bomb which if properly placed can act line a MICLIC, artillery shelling can have a similar effect but isn't as effective and leaves those big craters. A group of combat engineers with blocks of C4 with timed fuses running through a surface laid field is effective but dangerous. You also have the old school slow version of disarming each mine but they have to be treated as if they all have anti-tampering devices. This makes for slow excruciating work even if it is surface laid on soil, if it is on concrete or asphalt where you can't dig and get your hand underneath to probe for an anti-tampering device it requires you to GENTLY slide each mine to the edge of the roadway.

The alternative to dealing with the minefield is to find an alternate route, however, if the enemy is using a minefield and natural obstacles to channel you in a particular direction you can be almost certain you will be entering a kill zone.


TLDR: go back from whence you came and formulate a plan, going forward is a likely death wish.



ETA I should say in fairness the tankers behind may have thought it was artillery.
This post was edited on 2/13/23 at 2:43 am
Posted by jeffsdad
Member since Mar 2007
21611 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 5:12 am to
Thanks! Appreciate the answer.
Posted by beerJeep
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2016
35270 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 6:39 am to
quote:

In a perfect world, you would have a MICLIC (mine clearing line charge) available and move it up to the start of the minefield.


These mother frickers are bad arse.
LINK
Posted by tigeraddict
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2007
11875 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 8:01 am to
quote:


ETA I should say in fairness the tankers behind may have thought it was artillery.



apparently the driver of the russian armor has a very limited view (see videos of armor running over their friendly infantry or running into other armor units). like you said, they may have assumed the explosion was artillery, ATGMs, another tank. In these instances, they need to keep moving of risk being a sitting duck for the next round.

Honestly, i picture Boris and Natasha from Rocky and Bullwinkle and figure figure they tell themselves "commander say go here, so i go here....."
This post was edited on 2/13/23 at 8:04 am
Posted by El Segundo Guy
SE OK
Member since Aug 2014
9683 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 8:20 am to
quote:

I do not know the armor battle drill for encountering mines specifically


Interesting stuff. We always needed a MICLIC. And you are right, we would all be in overwatch positions to cover the obstacle while engineers were working. We relied on artillery mainly for cover smoke.

Each platoon had a plow tank. After the MICLIC, when the engineers gave the green light, artillery would lay down smoke every damn where.

The designated plow tank was the first through the obstacle to "proof" the lane and would have to traverse the main gun over the side and max elevate it in case of the plow detonating a mine. And behind the first plow tank there is the whole company hauling arse to get through the chokepoint obstacle asap. That plow tank driver cannot slow down under any circumstances.
This post was edited on 2/13/23 at 8:28 am
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