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Started By
Message
re: 150 years ago, in 1861, Missouri moved to SECede
Posted on 10/5/11 at 1:29 pm to RockChalkTiger
Posted on 10/5/11 at 1:29 pm to RockChalkTiger
1
Posted on 10/5/11 at 1:33 pm to theGarnetWay
quote:
Nah I found it.
Ken Burns' The Civil War
Good link. Funny how this many years later Missouri is still a divided state. Parts of it have a Southern feel, other part have a Midwest feel. I actually don't think I've ever seen a Confederate flag in Northern Missouri or the KCMO area. Hell go to Springfield/Branson you'd see t-shirts, hats, belts, license plates, etc with rebel flags.
This post was edited on 10/5/11 at 1:34 pm
Posted on 10/5/11 at 1:34 pm to RockChalkTiger
quote:
Start with Article 1, Section 10, which prohibits secession, and then read Article 2, Section 2, whcih grants the President broad powers as Commander-in-Chief.
Wow, you've come up with constitutional justification based on a specific article and section of the constitution that no one in the last 150 years, not even the most staunch unionist, has ever claimed. You're a genius
Or, maybe just a damned Kansan. We need to burn Lawrence again as far as I'm concerned. And this time we should take off the kid's gloves.
Posted on 10/5/11 at 2:07 pm to bayou2003
quote:
I actually don't think I've ever seen a Confederate flag in Northern Missouri or the KCMO area. Hell go to Springfield/Branson you'd see t-shirts, hats, belts, license plates, etc with rebel flags.
My parents live in Columbia and my brother attends Mizzou. I have seen numerous Rebel flags in Central Missouri. By the way, Missouri has the second most Civil War sites (second only to Virginia). If you are ever in Central Missouri do yourself a favor and head to the Centralia Battlefield.
Posted on 10/5/11 at 2:33 pm to Hawgon
U mad?
Better yet, we could fight the whole war again and kill the rest of the traitors.
Native Louisianian, descendant of Conffederate veterans, and man enough to admit that they were wrong to fight to perpetuate the institution of slavery.
But you were right about the genius part!
Better yet, we could fight the whole war again and kill the rest of the traitors.
Native Louisianian, descendant of Conffederate veterans, and man enough to admit that they were wrong to fight to perpetuate the institution of slavery.
But you were right about the genius part!
Posted on 10/5/11 at 2:49 pm to RockChalkTiger
quote:
Native Louisianian, descendant of Conffederate veterans, and man enough to admit that they were wrong to fight to perpetuate the institution of slavery.
Not to plunge us into political debate but were the Confederate States of America ultimately created to preserve slavery? Absolutely. But do I believe every Confederate soldier fought in the name of this preservation? Hell no. Not sure how much you know about your ancestors but perhaps they fought simply because they felt their home was in danger of invasion but what they felt was a foreign entity?
This post was edited on 10/5/11 at 2:51 pm
Posted on 10/5/11 at 3:19 pm to RockChalkTiger
quote:
mad?
Better yet, we could fight the whole war again and kill the rest of the traitors.
Native Louisianian, descendant of Conffederate veterans, and man enough to admit that they were wrong to fight to perpetuate the institution of slavery.
Ah, then you are a damned turncoat and a disgrace.
Posted on 10/5/11 at 3:29 pm to theGarnetWay
quote:
Not to plunge us into political debate but were the Confederate States of America ultimately created to preserve slavery? Absolutely. But do I believe every Confederate soldier fought in the name of this preservation? Hell no. Not sure how much you know about your ancestors but perhaps they fought simply because they felt their home was in danger of invasion but what they felt was a foreign entity?
Agreed. Except ancestors were flawed and were not perfect, just like all of us today. No one's perfect. Sometimes we go overboard honoring everything our ancestors did whether the actions were right or wrong.
Posted on 10/5/11 at 3:33 pm to will0637
quote:
No one's perfect.
Speak for yourself.
Posted on 10/5/11 at 3:41 pm to bayou2003
quote:
I bet a lot of people don't know that one of the stars on the Confederate Flag is for MISSOURI..
One is also for Kentucky. It's laughable for people living in North GA, East TN, or North AL to call anyone a yankee (Using historical definitons, not modern ones). Where they are living was 100% pro Union during the war.
Posted on 10/5/11 at 3:45 pm to busey
it has been 150 years anyway - people need to just get the frick over it. discussions on the civil war make southerners look more ridiculous than just about anything (short of reality television shows)
Posted on 10/5/11 at 3:54 pm to RockChalkTiger
quote:
Native Louisianian, descendant of Conffederate veterans, and man enough to admit that they were wrong to fight to perpetuate the institution of slavery.
Like everything, the Civil War was about money. Lincoln could care less about slavery. He wanted to preserve the Union to continue to collect tariffs from European goods sold to the south. The agricultural south prime motivation behind preserving slavery was free labor, i.e., money. Slavery would have eventually died out peacefully in short order as was occurring around the the rest of the western world and South America. Why? Again, money. We were in the midst of the industrial revolution and technology would have made slavery too expensive and too unproductive to compete with mechanized agriculture equipment.
Now why does Mizzou and the SEC want to join hands? Money.
Additionally, I find it amusing that Mizzou is being put though the Civil War litmus test in this here thread.
Posted on 10/5/11 at 4:50 pm to theGarnetWay
Actually, they avoided the war as long as possible (he had an exemption because he ran a tannery near Pine Apple, AL) were conscripted in late '64, captured in the Mobile campaign and paroled.
Lots of things are worth fighting for (19 years on active duty) but slavery isn't one of them.
Lots of things are worth fighting for (19 years on active duty) but slavery isn't one of them.
Posted on 10/5/11 at 4:53 pm to busey
quote:
One is also for Kentucky. It's laughable for people living in North GA, East TN, or North AL to call anyone a yankee (Using historical definitons, not modern ones). Where they are living was 100% pro Union during the war.
There was some Union sentiment in N. Alabama during the war. But it was in the vast minority. I can list multiple regiments raised in N. Alabama that were raised to fight for the Confederacy. There was one unit raised from N. Alabama that fought for the yankees. To say that N. Alabama was a pro-union majority is just wrong. Six - eight percent of Southenors owned slaves and those numbers hold true for the men that fought in the Confederate army. They went to war for many reasons, but a major one was they went to fight because their homes were invaded. Several states did not even vote to succeed until Lincoln called for volunteers to invade the South.
As for Missouri, it is estimated that up to 50,000 men from that state served in the Confederate army.
This post was edited on 10/5/11 at 5:04 pm
Posted on 10/5/11 at 4:55 pm to Hawgon
Actually, the secesh were the turncoats. At least Fayetteville provided three regiments for the Union Army. Look it up sometime. "Lincoln's Loyalists" would be a good place to start.
I think the Civil War litmus test is pretty funny, too, but, as a historian, I would have to say that Mizzou passes.
I think the Civil War litmus test is pretty funny, too, but, as a historian, I would have to say that Mizzou passes.
Posted on 10/5/11 at 5:07 pm to RockChalkTiger
quote:
Actually, the secesh were the turncoats.
I guess you would also say that about the colonial forces in the Revolutionary War to.
Posted on 10/5/11 at 5:24 pm to RockChalkTiger
quote:
Actually, the secesh were the turncoats. At least Fayetteville provided three regiments for the Union Army. Look it up sometime. "Lincoln's Loyalists" would be a good place to start.
Fayetteville did not provide three regiments for the Union Army. A civil war regiment would have up to a thousand men in it. There weren't that many people in Fayetteville.
And NW Arkansas was a little like Missouri. It was overrun early in the war after Pea Ridge.
And no, the patriots were not the turncoats. Those that sided with the damned dirty invaders were.
Posted on 10/5/11 at 5:25 pm to AU86
You mean the war where we discovered we could only survive by sticking together, north and south?
Both sides took lessons from that war.
Both sides took lessons from that war.
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