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Message
re: Hope LSU goes other than Kiffin...
Posted on 12/5/16 at 9:21 am to dos crystal
Posted on 12/5/16 at 9:21 am to dos crystal
quote:
You have to understand something. Ogeron's inner circle is pretty big. He's been on some of the best staff's in all of football for over 25 years. He can pull from Chaney, Sark, Kiffin, Mazzone, dan werner, freeze, Carmichael, marone, frank Wilson, etc
First of all, your definition of inner circle is different than mine. Second, I'm not suggesting that he ignore his contacts when identifying candidates.
However, it is a death sentence to only consider the coaches you've come into contact with. That's a terrible, terrible, strategy. If Orgeron's success will be based on him staying within his inner circle, he will fail.
He has the biggest budget in the nation for his coordinators. If he can't go out and successfully identify and hire a top guy out there, he can't succeed. If he's going to have to do it (I think most realize Kiffin is a short term hire), why not do it now?
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Posted on 12/5/16 at 9:24 am to moneyg
quote:
It's not in Orgeron's best interest, nor the program.
How is hiring one of the best offensive coordinator's in college football not in the best interest of the coach or lsu?
quote:
Plus, Kiffin is not the clear cut greatest OC out there. He's not head and shoulders above everyone else.
Please tell me who the clear cust greatest oc out there is. this should be good.
Posted on 12/5/16 at 9:36 am to dos crystal
quote:
How is hiring one of the best offensive coordinator's in college football not in the best interest of the coach or lsu?
The obvious answer is hiring Kiffin is NOT the only path to hiring one of the best offensive coordinators in college football. You are confused because you see it as a mutually exclusive scenario...when it's not.
quote:
Please tell me who the clear cust greatest oc out there is. this should be good.
This is the second very basic logic mistake you've made. I didn't say it was clear cut that Kiffin wasn't the best. I said, it's not clear cut that he's the best. I've already acknowledged that he is a very good coordinator (unlike what was suggested in the OP). The point is that, a quality HC with the budget LSU has given him should be able to make a Kiffin level hire...probably someone with a longer shelf life than Kiffin. Hell, Kiffin is already being named for jobs. And, both Orgeron and LSU would be better for it.
This post was edited on 12/5/16 at 9:45 am
Posted on 12/5/16 at 9:41 am to mattloc
As for Briles being a potential threat to most head coaches . . .
----------------------------------------------------
At this level, if that is preventing a hire, then you've got bigger problems. You've got a head coach who's ego is in the way of achieving success unless its solely under his command and control.
The "command and control" approach rarely works; and when it does, its usually a one-trick pony. Its also the approach Orgeron has admited led to his earlier failures and from which he's grown to lead in a polar opposite approach.
----------------------------------------------------
At this level, if that is preventing a hire, then you've got bigger problems. You've got a head coach who's ego is in the way of achieving success unless its solely under his command and control.
The "command and control" approach rarely works; and when it does, its usually a one-trick pony. Its also the approach Orgeron has admited led to his earlier failures and from which he's grown to lead in a polar opposite approach.
Posted on 12/5/16 at 9:57 am to moneyg
quote:
The obvious answer is hiring Kiffin is the only path to hiring one of the best offensive coordinators in college football
Whatever dude, your just rambling/spinning in circles. Don't think I'm the one confused here.
I stated I would prefer briles above. So, Kiffin isn't the "only path" in my eyes. However, I'm not ignorant enough to think he isn't "ONE OF" the best. Therefore, if you have "one of" the best in your inner circle and he's willing to come, I don't see why you don't do it. You can make a much worst hire. How is that not in the best interest of the coach or lsu?
quote:
This is the second very basic logic mistake you've made. I didn't say it was clear cut that Kiffin wasn't the best.
I didn't say he was either. Since you are arguing not to hire him because he's not the clear cut best, then tell us who is.
You are stating O shouldn't hire kiffin, are you not? You are stating He should go out there and do a search and hire someone else, and make a "aranda type hire", are you not? Then a simple question, who is the homerun oc, since kiffin isn't?
p.s. Miles made the Aranda Hire, did that prove he could make a homerun o.c. hire?
Posted on 12/5/16 at 10:17 am to dos crystal
quote:
Whatever dude, your just rambling/spinning in circles. Don't think I'm the one confused here.
I stated I would prefer briles above. So, Kiffin isn't the "only path" in my eyes. However, I'm not ignorant enough to think he isn't "ONE OF" the best. Therefore, if you have "one of" the best in your inner circle and he's willing to come, I don't see why you don't do it. You can make a much worst hire. How is that not in the best interest of the coach or lsu?
You are most definitely confused...again. I'm saying that performing an exhaustive search, identifying, and hiring a top notch coordinator is in the best interest of LSU and Orgeron.
quote:
I didn't say he was either. Since you are arguing not to hire him because he's not the clear cut best, then tell us who is.
You are really struggling with reading comprehension. I didn't say he shouldn't be hired because he isn't the clear cut best. I said that, given that he's not head and shoulders above other candidates, and given that he's very likely a short time hire (more than most if not all other candidates), it would be in LSU and Orgeron's best interest to open the search and make a different hire of equivalent level. I think it would benefit the program and validate Orgeron. quote:
You are stating O shouldn't hire kiffin, are you not? You are stating He should go out there and do a search and hire someone else, and make a "aranda type hire", are you not? Then a simple question, who is the homerun oc, since kiffin isn't?
See above. You are thoroughly confused. If you slow down and try to absorb my point, you'll probably realize that I'm not suggesting anything outlandish.
quote:
p.s. Miles made the Aranda Hire, did that prove he could make a homerun o.c. hire?
I think OC and DC probably stand on their own. I absolutely think Miles, if he were still here and needed to be able to find another DC would be able to do that. He did it twice. Miles' inner circle hire for OC was a disaster.
I'm not sure what your point is though in bringing up Miles.
Posted on 12/5/16 at 10:40 am to moneyg
how is it highly likely? you know nothing about me other than i posted something that you disagree with. in fact, you not being able to understand what was meant by the government job comment does not bode well for you.
so allow me to walk you through it.
-most (if not all) government positions must go through a set amount of interviews before hiring, regardless of whether or not the best candidate has already been identified
-you said that O needs to conduct a larger, nation-wide search (i'm paraphrasing)rather than hire someone from his "inner circle"
-my initial comment was to point out that, in my opinion, there is nothing wrong from hiring within your "inner circle" if the candidate from the "inner circle" is the best. (if kiffin truly is the best candidate is certainly up for debate, but in the end our opinions of the matter are irrelevant)
-the government job comment was a tongue-in-cheek comment pointing out that what you were advocating was a government style job search.
-it was not an insult of your intelligence
however, that said, i would never dare tell anyone to not be offended, so please feel free to take that and anything else i have written as a personal slight and direct insult of your intelligence, occupation, and manhood.
so allow me to walk you through it.
-most (if not all) government positions must go through a set amount of interviews before hiring, regardless of whether or not the best candidate has already been identified
-you said that O needs to conduct a larger, nation-wide search (i'm paraphrasing)rather than hire someone from his "inner circle"
-my initial comment was to point out that, in my opinion, there is nothing wrong from hiring within your "inner circle" if the candidate from the "inner circle" is the best. (if kiffin truly is the best candidate is certainly up for debate, but in the end our opinions of the matter are irrelevant)
-the government job comment was a tongue-in-cheek comment pointing out that what you were advocating was a government style job search.
-it was not an insult of your intelligence
however, that said, i would never dare tell anyone to not be offended, so please feel free to take that and anything else i have written as a personal slight and direct insult of your intelligence, occupation, and manhood.
Posted on 12/5/16 at 11:11 am to moneyg
quote:
I'm saying that performing an exhaustive search, identifying, and hiring a top notch coordinator is in the best interest of LSU and Orgeron.
And you know this hasn't been done? How exhaustive should the search be? 120? 55? 10? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out lane kiffin is in the top 5 or 10 o.c.'s in the country.
quote:
I didn't say he shouldn't be hired because he isn't the clear cut best. I said that, given that he's not head and shoulders above other candidates, and given that he's very likely a short time hire (more than most if not all other candidates),
Again, how do you know? who's the other candidates? so, if you hire Canada, he's guaranteed to stay longer? gilbert? briles jr? applewhite? who's the guy who's staying long term that is a top flight o.c.?
with that said, that's just a stupid philosophy. You worry about the future when you get to the future. If you don't take care of now, you don't get to the future. With this logic, you would have never hired Nick Saban. He wasn't going to be here long term. I'm glad we did. You get the best you can get at this time, worry about replacing him when the time comes.
Posted on 12/5/16 at 11:16 am to dos crystal
quote:
Two of the very best college coaches of our time are Pete Carroll and Nick Saban. Both wanted and Hired Kiffin to run their offenses.
The potential problem is O is not Carroll or Saban. Kiffin has been known to go rogue when he's not under the wing of one of these two. Can O keep him in line if he hires him?
Posted on 12/5/16 at 1:23 pm to dos crystal
quote:
And you know this hasn't been done?
My premise is that it hasn't been done. I don't KNOW that any more than you KNOW it has. I"m basing my premise on the lack of information stating otherwise. Obviously, if my premise turns out to be wrong, my resulting conclusion wouldn't hold water. I have no idea how this concept has stumped you.
quote:
How exhaustive should the search be? 120? 55? 10? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out lane kiffin is in the top 5 or 10 o.c.'s in the country.
If it were me, I'd identify 5-10 that I wanted to reach out to and go from there. Obviously, if you don't find what you are looking for, you adjust. But, you do a search. You talk to the candidates. You talk to associates who have an opinion. You do everything you can to find the right person. You do it because you know it's in your best interest.
quote:
Again, how do you know? who's the other candidates? so, if you hire Canada, he's guaranteed to stay longer? gilbert? briles jr? applewhite? who's the guy who's staying long term that is a top flight o.c.?
You make the best decision based on the information you have. Nothing is guaranteed. But, the thought that a lack of a guarantee means you can't plan for it is idiotic.
quote:
with that said, that's just a stupid philosophy. You worry about the future when you get to the future.
quote:
If you don't take care of now, you don't get to the future.
quote:
With this logic, you would have never hired Nick Saban. He wasn't going to be here long term. I'm glad we did. You get the best you can get at this time, worry about replacing him when the time comes.
No. Just no. There is so much wrong with this I'm just going to ignore it.
If Orgeron isn't capable of making a hire outside of Kiffin, he's going to fail anyway...because if Kiffin is successful, he's probably getting a job offer he's willing to take. And, if he's not successful, then Orgeron would fail whenever it's time to replace Kiffin (assuming he's willing to fire a friend). Orgeron will never be in a more advantageous spot to hire a coordinator than he is right now. He has time, the backing of the administration, and the largest budget in the country. He also has quality offensive talent immediately available for the OC to work with.
The only way the Kiffin hire makes sense is if you think he's head and shoulders above the other guy you'd hire. And, to know that, you'd have to actually have to get to the point were you know who the other guys are.
Posted on 12/5/16 at 1:32 pm to doya2
Let's see:
1. Kiffin discusses attacking the perimeter early in the game to make defenses play sideline to sideline, wearing them down so he can attack the interior line late the the game.
2. And message board posters call it sideways football.
I can't decide who knows more about running an offense.
1. Kiffin discusses attacking the perimeter early in the game to make defenses play sideline to sideline, wearing them down so he can attack the interior line late the the game.
2. And message board posters call it sideways football.
I can't decide who knows more about running an offense.
Posted on 12/5/16 at 1:55 pm to moneyg
quote:
My premise is that it hasn't been done. I don't KNOW
The only way the Kiffin hire makes sense is if you think he's head and shoulders above the other guy you'd hire. And, to know that, you'd have to actually have to get to the point were you know who the other guys are.
you use a lot of words to say nothing, I guess because admittedly, you know nothing. Yes, they have contacted and looked at other candidates. so, move along your entire premise is a farce. Nothing more than baseless babble.
Posted on 12/5/16 at 2:01 pm to sicboy
quote:
The best weapon he'll have coming in here is Guice and if he ignores him, the natives will be beyond restless.
But do we try to get him the ball in space, or continue to run between the tackles?
Guice is one of the most versatile backs I've seen, in that he has the power and balance to make yards after contact, and he has amazing lateral quickness and acceleration that allows him to move in the hole and hit top speed after he cuts to avoid contact altogether.
In short, he is a combination of scat back and power back. He can run out of the power I, and be equally effective in a spread offense.
Posted on 12/5/16 at 2:10 pm to dos crystal
quote:
Yes, they have contacted and looked at other candidates.
I'd bet that, besides Kiffin, we have nothing more than a list. I'd bet we haven't interviewed anyone.
If you have any information that is counter to that, post it. I'd love to be wrong. Unfortunately, I haven't heard/read anything to make me think I am.
quote:
you use a lot of words to say nothing, I guess because admittedly, you know nothing
No offense, but I've had to continuously attempt to assist you to even comprehend the points I'm making.
You're not really keeping up.Posted on 12/5/16 at 2:24 pm to doya2
Agree whole heartedly! Just don't like Kiffin as a person. Keep moving.....
Posted on 12/5/16 at 2:25 pm to moneyg
quote:
I'd bet that, besides Kiffin, we have nothing more than a list. I'd bet we haven't interviewed anyone
And you would lose that bet. I know one of the coaches that has been contacted.
That's the thing about ignorance, they don't know they are. No offense
Posted on 12/5/16 at 2:34 pm to dos crystal
quote:
And you would lose that bet. I know one of the coaches that has been contacted.
I said interviewed. Do you not know the difference or are you intentionally trying to distort the words so that you can seem correct?
Posted on 12/5/16 at 2:55 pm to moneyg
quote:
I said interviewed. Do you not know the difference or are you intentionally trying to distort the words so that you can seem correct?
If it were me, I'd identify 5-10 that I wanted to reach out to and go from there. Obviously, if you don't find what you are looking for, you adjust. But, you do a search. You talk to the candidates. You talk to associates who have an opinion. You do everything you can to find the right person. You do it because you know it's in your best interest
The only way the Kiffin hire makes sense is if you think he's head and shoulders above the other guy you'd hire. And, to know that, you'd have to actually have to get to the point were you know who the other guys are.
I'd bet that, besides Kiffin, we have nothing more than a list
your words not mine. maybe you have a hard time with comprehending your own words and keeping up with your own b.s.
This post was edited on 12/5/16 at 2:58 pm
Posted on 12/5/16 at 3:20 pm to dos crystal
quote:
If it were me, I'd identify 5-10 that I wanted to reach out to and go from there. Obviously, if you don't find what you are looking for, you adjust. But, you do a search. You talk to the candidates. You talk to associates who have an opinion. You do everything you can to find the right person. You do it because you know it's in your best interest
The only way the Kiffin hire makes sense is if you think he's head and shoulders above the other guy you'd hire. And, to know that, you'd have to actually have to get to the point were you know who the other guys are.
I'd bet that, besides Kiffin, we have nothing more than a list
your words not mine. maybe you have a hard time with comprehending your own words and keeping up with your own b.s.
That quote was in response to your direct question about how many they should reach out to. I was simply offering an opinion on the process that would determines that answer. You have to talk to and reach out to many people to get to the point where you are comfortable with your narrowed list. So, start with 5-10 and see where it goes.
The fact that I, again, have to explain this to you is really pathetic. You are having a lot of trouble keeping up.
I think I've made my point pretty clear over and over again. Your personal knowledge that we've talked to a specific other coach (I don't believe for one minute you really know this) does nothing to address that point. I suspect that we are in the very, very early stages with all other coaches not named Kiffin. If I end up being wrong about that, so be it. I'm not pretending to have that personal knowledge...nor is that my point. My point is that, if I'm right, I think it's a tactical mistake being made by Orgeron. He has an opportunity to set himself up to succeed. And, making a quality hire outside of his inner circle would go a long way to doing that. If he hires Kiffin, people are going to have the same doubts about him that they have now, and he might not have the same advantages then that he has now in hiring a coach. For example, he may be on the hot seat, and convincing a top notch coordinator to come may be tough.
I realize you are struggling to understand. Try to re-read everything...I mean ALL of the words. And, read it slower...and at least twice. It might help.
If it still doesn't make sense, then just continue to fail at using the very "complex" quote feature on this site and post a few more emoticons.
Posted on 12/5/16 at 4:10 pm to dos crystal
quote:
These type of post are Just plain ignorant.
I appreciate the critique.
What about my comment was ignorant... that I'd rather someone other than Kiffin? Nope... you agreed with that in you want Briles. That Kiffin coached some great running backs to win the Heisman? Nope.... can't be that. That you are a moron who has difficulty with reading comprehension... DING, DING, DING.. We have a winner! Idiot! 
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