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Started By
Message
re: Don't want Herman or Jimbo now?... let's break it down for you fools
Posted on 10/10/16 at 2:17 pm to Korkstand
Posted on 10/10/16 at 2:17 pm to Korkstand
quote:
No, you don't.
Ok. I think the man is a fine coach. Making Stanford relevant and making Michigan instantly better are both significant accomplishments. That said, Harbaugh is in his 9th year as the Head Coach of a college football program (his first three were spent in FCS at San Diego).
He has exactly ZERO Division I conference championships to his credit. The highlight of his college coaching career is an Orange Bowl victory over Virginia Tech.
Was he an outstanding coach in the NFL? Absolutely. Is he an outstanding coach in college? Absolutely. But something has to separate the obvious two best coaches in the game from the rest of the pack. I think that line should be a National Title. HELL, I'd even settle for a Conference Title at this point before we anoint him as on the same level as Urban Meyer (3 titles at 2 schools over 15 years, 3 conference champs, 27 total losses in 15 years) and Nick Saban (5 National titles at 2 schools, 6 conference titles and 197 victories in 20 years). Those guys are clearly Tier I.
quote:
It's not that high of a bar?! Only one guy in the entire world can do it each year. It's basically the highest bar you can possibly set.
It's so high of a bar that 15 different coaches have won one of these things since 1995. In 20 years, 15 coaches have won a NC. The club isn't nearly as elite as it sounds, so no, I don't consider winning ONE title to be too many to ask for when you say that a coach is expected to win a NC every few years.
1
Posted on 10/10/16 at 2:23 pm to tigerbait2010
quote:
I've been pro-Fedora and pro-Gundy on here but get hammered. they'd both be solid hires, more-so Gundy
I can't get behind Fedora for sure b/c he can't seem to field a consistent defense. He has even made comments in interviews (posted on this board) where defense wasn't a major concern. In the SEC that doesn't work consistently.
For Gundy.......... well he is a man.
but, I question his commitment to defense as well. But since he has only been at Okie State and in the Big 12 where offense is king, I can't say if he is a product of the conference or that's just his style of ball. I do think he needs a change, it wouldn't upset me if he was on the interview list.
Posted on 10/10/16 at 2:29 pm to tigerbait2010
I think kyle whittingham at Utah should get a look.... Loyal, long term guy. Good offense, good defense... Might as well if top 2 not available or too much baggage
Posted on 10/10/16 at 3:15 pm to rintintin
People get mad when I say this, but i think if we strike out on:
Jimbo
Herman
Chip Kelly
...Orgeron + an incredible OC (but who? Kiffin worries me), or Dan Mullen would be interesting picks, I'd be disappointed but could get behind those.
I used to be a Shaw and Stoops guy, I'd take them, but I don't see a ton of upside... not sure Shaw could beat Saban with that system and Stoops doesn't bring new entergy, feels like another Les.
I don't know enough about Fedora and Gundy but can't reconicle the upside vs risk.
More than anything, i think we should go after Herman hard because Chip and Jimbo would be tough, and putting UT in their place would feel so damn good.
Jimbo
Herman
Chip Kelly
...Orgeron + an incredible OC (but who? Kiffin worries me), or Dan Mullen would be interesting picks, I'd be disappointed but could get behind those.
I used to be a Shaw and Stoops guy, I'd take them, but I don't see a ton of upside... not sure Shaw could beat Saban with that system and Stoops doesn't bring new entergy, feels like another Les.
I don't know enough about Fedora and Gundy but can't reconicle the upside vs risk.
More than anything, i think we should go after Herman hard because Chip and Jimbo would be tough, and putting UT in their place would feel so damn good.
Posted on 10/10/16 at 3:21 pm to Buckeye06
"You have to find the "unproven" guy that becomes Saban or Meyer 15 years down the line"
15YEARS ....
Way dumb 
Posted on 10/10/16 at 4:03 pm to Tiger4Liberty
quote:
Stoops is a loser. We should never consider him.
While a very well thought out and evidence based argument, when the following resume walks in the door:
182–48 record
1 National Championship
4 National Championship appearances
9 conference championships
17 bowl games
2x Walter Camp Coach of the Year
...you definitely consider it
Posted on 10/10/16 at 6:13 pm to DrEdgeLSU
quote:If you're going to count those 3 FCS years as some sort of negative (9 years of coaching with nothing to show for it), you could at least point out that he won the conference in his 2nd and 3rd years, the first two times SD had won the conference.
That said, Harbaugh is in his 9th year as the Head Coach of a college football program (his first three were spent in FCS at San Diego).
quote:So now you're only talking about his FBS career, which he is in his 6th year of. And he started out by taking over a bad Stanford team. Like really, really bad. Almost winless bad. And 4 years later that team get a major bowl victory? Not a bad career highlight.
He has exactly ZERO Division I conference championships to his credit. The highlight of his college coaching career is an Orange Bowl victory over Virginia Tech.
quote:You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm just expressing mine. You are drawing a hard line here, and a few of the guys above it include Coker, Chizik, and Miles. Not exactly elite coaches, but they fell into the right situations.
But something has to separate the obvious two best coaches in the game from the rest of the pack. I think that line should be a National Title.
Posted on 10/11/16 at 1:05 am to Korkstand
A resume that's missing a championship win could certainly be better.
Posted on 10/11/16 at 9:08 am to rintintin
Great post OP, sums up my thoughts pretty well.
When it comes down to it, options are a bit limited, and we would likely be bringing in a guy that has some built in resistance from the fan base. Tom Herman maybe the only guy that could be mostly positive, but if he were to lose early, rats would jump off ship with quickness.
I think we will find O to be a decent choice, and he will have to hire an awesome OC that will eventually find a HC gig.
LSU fans will learn that Miles wasn't that bad. Doesn't mean it wasn't time to move on, but things could have been far far worse. Just look at UT or even ND for that matter. They just can't seem to get anywhere close to where they want to be.
When it comes down to it, options are a bit limited, and we would likely be bringing in a guy that has some built in resistance from the fan base. Tom Herman maybe the only guy that could be mostly positive, but if he were to lose early, rats would jump off ship with quickness.
I think we will find O to be a decent choice, and he will have to hire an awesome OC that will eventually find a HC gig.
LSU fans will learn that Miles wasn't that bad. Doesn't mean it wasn't time to move on, but things could have been far far worse. Just look at UT or even ND for that matter. They just can't seem to get anywhere close to where they want to be.
Posted on 10/11/16 at 11:25 am to Korkstand
quote:
You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm just expressing mine. You are drawing a hard line here, and a few of the guys above it include Coker, Chizik, and Miles. Not exactly elite coaches, but they fell into the right situations.
I didn't say anyone with a NC is above the line. It's not that complicated - if you are going to predict that a coach is expected to win a NC every few years then that coach should prove that at least ONE time he can actually win ONE.
Either way, it's been fun debating with you Coach Harbaugh.
Posted on 10/11/16 at 12:41 pm to rintintin
quote:
Helfrich
quote:
He's as proven as Herman is.
actually he's more proven than Herman. He took over an elite program and now just 2 years after playing for the NC it looks like he's run the program aground. He's another Larry Coker, maybe worse.
Posted on 10/11/16 at 2:08 pm to DrEdgeLSU
quote:You say it's not that complicated, I say it's not that simple, because it isn't. Context matters, a lot.
I didn't say anyone with a NC is above the line. It's not that complicated - if you are going to predict that a coach is expected to win a NC every few years then that coach should prove that at least ONE time he can actually win ONE.
Would you expect even Saban or Meyer to be capable of taking over a beaten down 1-win program and get them to the brink of the national title game within 4 years? Harbaugh did that.
Would you expect a coach of Saban or Meyer's caliber to be able to take over an NFL team that hadn't made the playoffs in nearly a decade, and lead them to a 13-3 record and an NFC champ game appearance in his first year? And then a Super Bowl appearance in his second season? Harbaugh did that.
And now at Michigan he has them climbing the ranks at the same or faster pace than Meyer or Saban have done when they went to programs that have an actual shot at winning a national title. They've just been coaching at big time schools for longer than he has.
He's only in year 2 of his career in terms of coaching at a school with an actual chance to win a title (although he did come close to doing it at a school with basically zero chance), and he is firmly in the hunt already.
Honestly, I feel like I'm stating the obvious when I say it's clear that Harbaugh is easily in the club with Meyer and Saban. Your insistence that a coach already needs a NC in his pocket in order to expect one or more NC's from him in the future is just silly.
But, again, just my opinion.
Posted on 10/11/16 at 2:21 pm to Korkstand
quote:
So now you're only talking about his FBS career, which he is in his 6th year of. And he started out by taking over a bad Stanford team. Like really, really bad. Almost winless bad. And 4 years later that team get a major bowl victory? Not a bad career highlight.
Not to mention he beat #2 USC in his first year, and had to contend with the Chip Kelly Oregon Ducks, and he still had a great deal of success. Then jumped to the NFL and took a team to the SB, now back in the NCAA and has clearly turned Michigan around in short order. I don't see how anyone could say that Harbaugh is not in that elite class of coaching.
Wouldn't count any lack of division titles as anything but a product of circumstance; he was building a program in a conference that had two established powerhouses. And looks like he could very well get that conference title this year. Even if he didn't I wouldn't hold it against him. Urban Meyer is a great coach.
This post was edited on 10/11/16 at 2:25 pm
Posted on 10/11/16 at 3:18 pm to rintintin
quote:
-Helfrich (he's kinda a fringe guy but I'll throw him in)
Larry Coker without the NC.
Posted on 10/29/16 at 8:52 pm to TroyTider
Bump
Posted on 10/29/16 at 8:59 pm to rintintin
Herman and Jimbo
are still my #1a and #1b
EASILY
Don't care what their current teams are doing. With elite recruits they work magic.. and that's what you have at LSU
I want an x and o's coach to take us to the next level.
Saban had ugly losses in his first gig. It happens.
Both these guys can develop QBs and still feature a balanced offense..
LSU can find elite DC's better than OC'sIMO so you never have to worry about the OC because you have an actual mastermind.. like an Urban
are still my #1a and #1b
EASILY
Don't care what their current teams are doing. With elite recruits they work magic.. and that's what you have at LSU
I want an x and o's coach to take us to the next level.
Saban had ugly losses in his first gig. It happens.
Both these guys can develop QBs and still feature a balanced offense..
LSU can find elite DC's better than OC'sIMO so you never have to worry about the OC because you have an actual mastermind.. like an Urban
Posted on 10/29/16 at 9:13 pm to jamalsdeck
yes, I'm still behind Herman, Fedora, and Fleck. Wouldn't mind Fisher (he's a step up from Miles) and could definitely get behind him. But overall, hoping LSU wins out THIS SEASON, which means we would be going with the magic of the trio of Coaches O, Ensminger, and Aranda.
Posted on 10/29/16 at 9:21 pm to jamalsdeck
quote:I agree 100%, coach o would have to hire elite coordinators if he retained
LSU can find elite DC's better than OC'sIMO so you never have to worry about the OC because you have an actual mastermind
Posted on 10/29/16 at 9:26 pm to nvasil1
there is a correlation. the nfl is harder.
Posted on 10/29/16 at 9:27 pm to the crue
quote:
I agree 100%, coach o would have to hire elite coordinators if he retained
which, if he is hired, would already have, as Aranda and Ensminger would have already proven themselves. Only way we hire Coach O is if he ends this season with great success, which would mean his coordinators also had great success.
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