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re: Can we stop pretending recruiting is hard?
Posted on 11/16/21 at 11:22 am to H-Town Tiger
Posted on 11/16/21 at 11:22 am to H-Town Tiger
our recruiting class has largely stayed together with a coach that's been fired for over a month.....
0
Posted on 11/16/21 at 11:27 am to BilJ
quote:
its not something you should over emphasize in a head coach
This is fricking hysterical. It's not an accident that the two greatest recruiters in modern CFB history (saban and meyer) just so happen to be guys who have both won national championships at multiple schools.
But you don't think recruiting should be emphasized in a head coach.
This post was edited on 11/16/21 at 1:40 pm
Posted on 11/16/21 at 11:29 am to LifeAquatic
quote:how come lsu doesn't have an SEC caliber center on this team? if he was so elite there wouldn't be so many holes.
...you realize that O has been considered an elite recruiter--one of the best in the game--for literal decades, right?
Posted on 11/16/21 at 11:34 am to LifeAquatic
quote:
no, i've never once said this.
not directly but if you think that recruiting is some unique natural born skill then a "great recruiter" should be able to recruit top 5 classes anywhere
quote:
Is recruiting a skill?
quote:
Can "anybody" bring in top 5 classes so long as they are at the right school?
define skill and anybody. You are taking the phrase "anybody can do it" to literally. BilJ's mistake is assuming a base level of intelligence that would understand what he means, which is, it should not be a concern with the coaches under consideration. They are all professional coaches that understand the importance of recruiting. Just because someone like Aranda doesn't have a gregarious outgoing personality doesn't a) mean he can't recruit and b) that he can't hire great recruiters on staff.
This post was edited on 11/16/21 at 11:36 am
Posted on 11/16/21 at 11:36 am to BilJ
Reticence to get appropriately in the muck of SEC style recruiting is the problem with Campbell, if rumors are to be believed.
Nobody who does it the “right way”, or thinks there is a “right way” can really be a serious candidate for a top level SEC job. If you aren’t enthusiastic about bringing all of the available resources to bear on the problem of recruiting and roster building, you’re just not going to succeed.
Nobody who does it the “right way”, or thinks there is a “right way” can really be a serious candidate for a top level SEC job. If you aren’t enthusiastic about bringing all of the available resources to bear on the problem of recruiting and roster building, you’re just not going to succeed.
This post was edited on 11/16/21 at 11:39 am
Posted on 11/16/21 at 11:38 am to BilJ
quote:
It’s not this learned skill you either have or don’t have. The most important factors in being a “good recruiter” are willingness to grind, school you’re recruiting for, and geographic location. Pretty much anyone can do it as evidenced by our current man. Now you have certain coaches that believe they’re above sucking up to teenagers and playing the game but I don’t see that as an issue with Campbell or really any of our candidates.
This is just objectively false. People have varying talents and levels of those talents. A coach has to be relatable to other people on some level to be effective as a recruiter, and not everyone is. That’s just basic human nature. They may say the same things as the next guy, but that doesn’t mean it comes across. It’s the one who can build genuine bonds and relationships and can read people and also figure out what a recruit and his family are looking for and sell that to them that wins these battles.
Are you really going to tell me that someone who doesn’t have those skills or doesn’t care to play that game can effectively go up against Saban, Kirby and Jimbo? Even with the same budget and resources, you would be losing more big time National guys than you win. Again, this is basic stuff.
Does the head coach have to be a killer on the level of those 3 to be successful? I don’t think so if they are at least personable and relatable on an above average level. That combined with a killer recruiting staff and an equal budget can help overcome some shortcomings. But if those deficiencies weren’t offset properly, we would absolutely start losing more battles than we should, including in-state.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 11:38 am to LifeAquatic
quote:
But you don't think recruiting should be emphasized in a head coach.
Neither Saban or Meyer were hired because they were the "greatest recruiters" in modern history. They arguably became that because they won but also were at major programs. You like asking questions answer this, what changed for Saban between the 1999 class at MSU and the 2001 class he signed at LSU.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 11:38 am to LifeAquatic
quote:
It's not an accident that the two greatest recruiters in modern CFB history (saban and meyer) j
both were considered elite coaches first.
the elite recruiting came as they won and were at schools in recruiting hot beds.
Show me Urban and Nick's rankings at Utah and Mich St. Surely as the greatest recruiters in modern history they were pulling in blue chippers there, right?
This post was edited on 11/16/21 at 11:43 am
Posted on 11/16/21 at 11:40 am to CrippleCreek
quote:
Reticence to get appropriately in the muck of SEC style recruiting is the problem with Campbell, if rumors are to be believed.
well yeah that would be an issue.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 11:44 am to misey94
quote:
Even with the same budget and resources, you would be losing more big time National guys than you win
who is really recruiting nationally on a consistent basis now?
Posted on 11/16/21 at 11:45 am to BilJ
Bama but only after they established a dynasty
Posted on 11/16/21 at 11:47 am to LifeAquatic
quote:
It's not an accident that the two greatest recruiters in modern CFB history (saban and meyer) just so happen to be guys who have both won multiple national championships.
Meyer was as schematic genius and major innovator when he was hired at UF. As the game passed him by, he devoted more of his time to recruiting and deferred the Xs and Os to assistants (like Ryan Day). Meyer actually imploded at UF because he focused too much on recruiting and not enough on coaching and team building.
Saban transformed into a new level of everything post-NFL. The reason Saban has been dominant is that he's adept at both Xs and Os and recruiting.
Saban and Meyer are 2 of the 10 best CFB coaches of all time. Guys like that don't come on the market often and I don't know if any of our potential hires have that sort of potential. That's life.
What you're missing is that Xs and Os guys can become good recruiters (look at Saban and Meyer for examples). Recruiter-first guys almost never become good Xs and Os guys. Even Jimbo has become a recruiter-first b/c his schemes are out-dated (and he refuses to change). We see the results (2-3 losses annually).
Posted on 11/16/21 at 11:47 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
You are taking the phrase "anybody can do it" to literally
“When we said repeatedly that recruiting wasn’t a skill and that anyone could do it, we didn’t REALLY mean that recruiting wasn’t a skill and anyone could do it!!!! You’re not supposed to take the things we say seriously!!!!”
This post was edited on 11/16/21 at 11:52 am
Posted on 11/16/21 at 11:48 am to H-Town Tiger
right I was going to say they're the exception to the rule, its a national brand now
a kid in California wants to go there because they win and he's grown up a "fan." It's not a elite recruiting, Bama has a built in in now
its also not something they rely on, they can build top 5 classes just on their base. Going nationally is lagniappe now for them.
a kid in California wants to go there because they win and he's grown up a "fan." It's not a elite recruiting, Bama has a built in in now
its also not something they rely on, they can build top 5 classes just on their base. Going nationally is lagniappe now for them.
This post was edited on 11/16/21 at 11:52 am
Posted on 11/16/21 at 11:49 am to BilJ
quote:
well yeah that would be an issue.
I thought anyone could do it and recruiting shouldn’t matter in the hiring process?
Posted on 11/16/21 at 11:49 am to LifeAquatic
again retard you've been asked twice now and keep running back to the "anyone can do it" as your safe space
show us the blue chippers the greatest recruiters ever were pulling at Utah and Mich St.
show us the blue chippers the greatest recruiters ever were pulling at Utah and Mich St.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 11:50 am to LifeAquatic
that would be part of the "willingness" aspect. Are you really this fricking stupid? It's like arguing with a toddler that is unable to grasp nuance at all.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 11:52 am to BilJ
Recruiting isn't hard but of course some are just naturally better at it than others, and it's not easy to be a great recruiter.
Those that aren't naturally good at it need to spend more time at it. That's a challenge for a HC, so recruiting well is definitely a team effort.
Also, what I'll say about recruiting is that there are far more capable recruiters than jobs for them in CFB. Finding a good recruiter is not difficult. But this guy has to also be able to coach. It seems to be a balancing act to me.
If you have a great assistant coach that's also a great recruiter, that guy isn't going to be an assistant for very long, and he'll be incredibly hard to pull away from his current team.
So to me, a HC's success with staff will depend upon putting together the best group of assistants that on an individual basis, will probably leave something to be desired with coaching or recruiting.
Those that aren't naturally good at it need to spend more time at it. That's a challenge for a HC, so recruiting well is definitely a team effort.
Also, what I'll say about recruiting is that there are far more capable recruiters than jobs for them in CFB. Finding a good recruiter is not difficult. But this guy has to also be able to coach. It seems to be a balancing act to me.
If you have a great assistant coach that's also a great recruiter, that guy isn't going to be an assistant for very long, and he'll be incredibly hard to pull away from his current team.
So to me, a HC's success with staff will depend upon putting together the best group of assistants that on an individual basis, will probably leave something to be desired with coaching or recruiting.
This post was edited on 11/16/21 at 11:59 am
Posted on 11/16/21 at 11:54 am to LifeAquatic
quote:
“When we said recruiting wasn’t a skill and that anyone could do it, we didn’t REALLY mean that recruiting wasn’t a skill and anyone could do it!!!!
i think you are confusing skill with talent. if its a skill then it can be learned. You don't have to be a "natural"
quote:
You’re not supposed to take the things we say seriously!!!!”
you're not supposed to take everything literally and 2 dimensionally only.
The bottom line is passing on someone like Aranda* solely because he's not a great recruiter would be stupid.
*please note this is just an example I'm not saying Aranda would be a can't miss, just using him as an example since he is considered not a great recruiter.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 11:56 am to Goldrush25
quote:
So to me, a HC's success with staff will depend upon putting together the best group of assistants that on an individual basis, will probably leave something to be desired with coaching or recruiting.
Well that's why you typically see certain positional groups act more as recruiters. RBs coaches should never be primarily relied upon for their schematics. RBs coaches are recruiters first, coach second.
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