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Message
re: Dune
Posted on 3/6/24 at 2:37 pm to boxcarbarney
Posted on 3/6/24 at 2:37 pm to boxcarbarney
quote:
I haven't seen the 2nd one yet, mainly because my family is a huge pain in my arse. If they aren't ready to see it by this weekend, I'm going by myself.
I will keep from spoiling anything else. We can discuss any likes or dislike next week.
1
Posted on 3/11/24 at 8:53 am to Bert Macklin FBI
Saw the movie yesterday. Overall, it was an enjoyable and beautifully shot movie.
I do take issue with some of the changes made from the source material though.
I do take issue with some of the changes made from the source material though.
Posted on 3/11/24 at 12:09 pm to boxcarbarney
quote:
I do take issue with some of the changes made from the source material though.
SPOILERS:
My main issue was Stilgar and Chani. Lets start with Stilgar. In the books he's a stoic alpha male that commands a ton of respect from his fellow Fremen. In the movie they made him kind of a bumbling idiot. In the books he started as a skeptic of Paul but grew to respect and believe in him. In the movie they made it seem like he was twisting anything to be a sign that Paul was the Lisan Al-Gaib.
Chani also kinda sucked because she went from a loyal priestess in the book that understood that Paul's path was bigger than her or him and they needed to do whatever they needed to do for the betterment of the Fremen people. In the movie they made her this kinda woke skeptic that resisted Paul at every turn yet somehow was still in love with him? It was weird that they tried to play it both ways. I did read from the director that one of the issues among book readers is that they didn't see the signs that Paul is really an anti-hero/possible villain and it lead to people not liking where the story goes in Dune: Messiah. To combat this he needed Chani to be the "voice of reason" who could see through the prophecy BS and show Paul's true motives. He said that Chani being close to Paul and having a very simple storyline in the books made it easy to use her character for this purpose. I guess I kind of get that but it seems like it sort of buries the lead on the 3rd movie. Why not let the twist be the twist when its time? Why do we have to show his true intentions before his true intentions come to fruition?
I'm also sad I didn't get to see toddler Alia frick with everyone and stab Harkonnens. But that is a minor flaw. Other than that, I understand the reasons for other changes to move the story along quicker than the books.
Posted on 3/11/24 at 1:26 pm to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:
In the movie they made it seem like he was twisting anything to be a sign that Paul was the Lisan Al-Gaib.
My biggest issues, are like you said, the treatment of Stilgar and Chani. I'd add to that how Jessica was setting everything up for Paul to drink the Water of Life, to make him into the Kwisatz Haderach.
But I think the portrayal of Chani was the one I liked the least. Instead of being a devoted wife to Muad'dib - dispatching people who come to challenge because she feels they aren't worth his time - she becomes an independent woman who don't need no man. Completely misses the point of Chani, her devotion to Paul, and how it ties into the ending of the book.
Jessica to Chani:
quote:
Think on it, Chani: the princess will have the name, yet she'll live as less than a concubine - never to know a moment of tenderness from the man to whom she's bound. While we, Chani, we who carry the name of concubine - history will call us wives.
But Villeneuve is a huge feminist, and probably felt that Chani's portrayal in the book was a product of the times it was written in and had to be changed for a modern audience. Completely ignoring that the all woman group, the Bene Gesserit, are who truly run the empire.
Posted on 3/11/24 at 1:38 pm to boxcarbarney
quote:
But Villeneuve is a huge feminist, and probably felt that Chani's portrayal in the book was a product of the times it was written in and had to be changed for a modern audience. Completely ignoring that the all woman group, the Bene Gesserit, are who truly run the empire.
Agreed the other part that bothered me was breaking the Fremen into 2 factions. Souther fanatics and Northern realists. It is known through history (and modern times) that people who are oppressed to turn to religion and "skepticism" is a luxery of people who aren't fighting everyday to survive and escape their oppressors. It was like he was afraid to portray the Fremeb as they were written because that would be a poor stereotype of muslims and he needed to show them as free thinkers.
MFer. The muslims that are living in the conditions similar to the Fremen are radical and religious in the real world.
Posted on 3/11/24 at 2:13 pm to Bert Macklin FBI
I also hated how they had Feyd as another potential Kwisatz Haderach, and had Lady Fenring test him with the box.
Feyd wasn't a potential Kwisatz Haderach. The Bene Gesserit wanted his genes to restart the Kwitsatz program if they couldn't control Paul.
Feyd wasn't a potential Kwisatz Haderach. The Bene Gesserit wanted his genes to restart the Kwitsatz program if they couldn't control Paul.
Posted on 3/11/24 at 4:07 pm to boxcarbarney
quote:
Feyd wasn't a potential Kwisatz Haderach. The Bene Gesserit wanted his genes to restart the Kwitsatz program if they couldn't control Paul.
Feyd was supposed to be married to the daughter that Jessica was supposed to have with Leto. She fricked up the program by having a son for Leto because she actually loved him.
Posted on 3/11/24 at 4:40 pm to Green Chili Tiger
quote:
Feyd was supposed to be married to the daughter that Jessica was supposed to have with Leto. She fricked up the program by having a son for Leto because she actually loved him.
Right. Feyd was supposed to be wed to an Atreides daughter to seal the breach between the two houses.
The movie put Feyd through the pain box trial an everything.
Posted on 3/11/24 at 4:49 pm to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:
they made her this kinda woke skeptic
O good lord man. Yes, she was different than her character in book and wasn't supportive of Paul, that does not make her a woke character.
Posted on 3/12/24 at 9:55 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
O good lord man. Yes, she was different than her character in book and wasn't supportive of Paul, that does not make her a woke character.
Instead of sticking the book character which was a loyal, submissive priestess that loved Paul and her people unwaveringly, they made her an independent She-warrior. I realize that its very mild on the woke meter but don't think for a second that the decision to change that character in that way didn't stem from Hollywood having issues with a subservient female main character.
Posted on 3/12/24 at 9:59 am to boxcarbarney
quote:
Right. Feyd was supposed to be wed to an Atreides daughter to seal the breach between the two houses.
The movie put Feyd through the pain box trial an everything.
I get what you are saying but that change didn't bother me that much because Feyd dies at the end no matter what they say about him. It doesn't affect the story beyond that scene. I think the real point of that was to show that the Bene Gesserit had contingency plans.
Now I just started Dune:Messiah so maybe I just haven't discovered it yet but I don't recall Feyd impregnating Lady Fenring. If thats not in the books, it could frick up the storyline.
Posted on 3/12/24 at 2:25 pm to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:
Now I just started Dune:Messiah so maybe I just haven't discovered it yet but I don't recall Feyd impregnating Lady Fenring. If thats not in the books, it could frick up the storyline.
Its in the books. I just can' t remember which one.
Posted on 3/14/24 at 12:13 pm to boxcarbarney
quote:
the fourth book is just so damn good
Posted on 3/14/24 at 4:51 pm to Bert Macklin FBI
I got 3-4 books deep into the series when I was a teenager but I have to say, you’re 100% ok stopping after Dune.
it gets fricking weird.
it gets fricking weird.
Posted on 3/15/24 at 8:17 am to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:
20 books in this world?
Frank only wrote 6.
Posted on 3/15/24 at 8:44 am to Philzilla
quote:
Frank only wrote 6.
Then a ton of fan fiction his son wrote. I'm looking forward to Brian Herberts next novels:
Janitors of Dune
Fast Food Restaurants of Dune
Baron Harkonnen's Skin Flap Washers of Dune
Dunes of Dune
Posted on 12/1/24 at 12:01 am to boxcarbarney
It is in the first one. I just started Messiah and am five chapters in. I’ve had to read, and re-read the same passages bc some of this shite is really out there.
Posted on 12/2/24 at 10:10 am to TheFunk
quote:
I’ve had to read, and re-read the same passages bc some of this shite is really out there.
You better buckle up then. It only gets weirder from there.
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