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re: Home audio/video setup: How to wire and what equipment do I need?
Posted on 8/15/18 at 7:20 am to DisplacedBuckeye
Posted on 8/15/18 at 7:20 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Sonos is OK for what it is, but it doesn't cut it compared to real audio quality
Come on dude. Google audiophile Sonos and you get articles from every respected audiophile corner in the world saying the Sonos is pretty damn impressive.
Y'all keep rolling your eyes at Sonos and believing that word tsunami from tigerwise will deliver a trouble-free music music experience and somehow with sound listening about as subjective as telling the difference between 2-buck Chuck and a $100 bottle of wine that you really are getting a better music experience from all that spaghetti of avrs, cables and switch boxes.
To each their own but it's laughable to dismiss Sonos when 99.9% of the people on this site simply believe what the dinosaur HiFi sellers are feeding them and couldn't tell the difference between the 2 systems without being told which is better for them.
I understand. Every Sonos install gives tigerwise a few new gray hairs because it's hard to drag out those billable install hours and high margin cables when all you're doing is plugging in a few speakers and he knows he will likely never hear from them again.
With traditional "real" audio installs he can tweak their system and sell them a bucket full of high margin cables along with hours of installation charges while he crawls though attics and cuts holes in walls.
For every one Marco Esquandolas on this site there are 15,000 others who just want to blast the occasional Buffett song and pipe LSU game audio to their whole house. They will NEVER actually appreciate the so-called audio quality advantage of a traditional speaker setup but they will all get to appreciate the special hell of AVRs and zone 2 audio management.
The solution is in front of you. Stop drinking the koolaid and become installer free. When you add in the hassle and install fees with a traditional setup Sonos looks like a bargain even at retail.
There's a reason even 10+ year old Sonos products can still be sold at 99% of their original price. You can't say that about any AVR which is obsolete in 2 years. They're piled up at Goodwill.
that's why tigerwise is recommending cheap onkyos these days because he knows this is true even for the $2,000 avrs and doesn't want to take that call from an angry client who just realized that $2,000 Yamaha AVR he installed 3 years ago can't pump 4K HDR to his new TV. Eta my investment risk going with Sonos < $0. I can sell every last Sonos component in my house for huge margins tomorrow if I decided to throw it out. You'd be lucky to sell anything in that "premium" system for pennies on the dollar after it's installed. Think about that for a minute when you're getting ready to move forward.
This post was edited on 8/15/18 at 7:59 am
3
Posted on 8/15/18 at 8:14 am to CAD703X
When SONOS starts selling in ceiling speakers and outdoor speakers, come talk to me. I don't want speaker boxes all over my house. (which is why I don't own towers even though they sound better than my bookshelfs) . And I don't want to worry about if the humidity in LA will destroy my speakers outside.
This post was edited on 8/15/18 at 8:16 am
Posted on 8/15/18 at 8:16 am to CAD703X
quote:
A stereo pair of Sonos play 1s will destroy ceiling mounted mono speakers.
Who installs in ceiling mono speakers on resi applications ? NOBODY.
You either don’t know what you are talking about and/or you trolling. A pair of in ceiling speaker are going to fill the room with sound so much better than some play1s.
quote:
Every Sonos install gives tigerwise a few new gray hairs because it's hard to drag out those billable
Sonos are easy money jobs but are a bad value for the end users.
quote:
while he crawls though attics and cuts holes in walls.
I don’t climb in attics brah. You don’t know me.
quote:
You can't say that about any AVR which is obsolete in 2 years
The things on a AVR that are obsolete in a couple years are feature SONOS doesn’t even have.
I’m not anti Sonos, I’ll sell a couple 100,000 of it this year. I just understand the pros and cons. In a thread where the OP starts off by saying NO SONOS you can’t help but come in a derail the thread with walls of ignorant text.
Like I said you are either trolling and/or don’t know what you are talking about. Either way you should STFU
Have a nice day.
Posted on 8/15/18 at 8:22 am to TigerWise
is this the thread where people tell us they can tell the difference in platinum coated helium filled cables and a coat hanger ? My favorite article that I source to audiophiles
quote:
Further, when music was played through the coat hanger wire, we were asked if what we heard sounded good to us. All agreed that what was heard sounded excellent, however, when A-B tests occured, it was impossible to determine which sounded best the majority of the time and which wire was in use.
Posted on 8/15/18 at 9:02 am to TigerWise
quote:
bad value for the end users.
Because they can't resell them 5 years into the future at the same price they bought them for?
What's your definition of 'value'?
quote:
things on a AVR that are obsolete in a couple years are feature SONOS doesn’t even have.
Because Sonos doesn't need them.
quote:
you can’t help but come in a derail the thread with walls of ignorant text
I was responding to someone who said Sonos wasn't a real audio system
quote:
don’t know what you are talking about. Either way you should STFU
Struck a little too close to home did I?
Care to tell me where I'm wrong instead of just telling me you don't pull wire through attics and getting defensive?
Posted on 8/15/18 at 9:07 am to Neauxla
quote:
And I don't want to worry about if the humidity in LA will destroy my speakers outside.
Fair point. My outside speakers are technically in a screened in porch so not directly exposed to water but they are exposed to humidity.
Posted on 8/15/18 at 10:21 am to CAD703X
quote:NOLA humidity >> TN humidity
Fair point. My outside speakers are technically in a screened in porch so not directly exposed to water but they are exposed to humidity.
And again, I don't want speaker boxes all over the place. I like in ceiling speakers for music b/c they are nice and discreet and still provide quality sound. Home theater is another beast altogether.
Posted on 8/15/18 at 10:42 am to Neauxla
quote:
The amp you add to your receiver to send juice to more speakers but has no control over anything else
I believe the word for what you're referring to is "power amp."
Generally speaking:
Preamps typically give a line-level output which is often times your red/white RCA connectors
Power amps usually take a line-level input and output to the speakers.
Posted on 8/15/18 at 10:44 am to CAD703X
quote:
Care to tell me where I'm wrong
You think he wants mono in-ceiling speakers when he has clearly stated he wants three pairs of stereo speakers.
Posted on 8/15/18 at 10:59 am to Hopeful Doc
quote:
You think he wants mono in-ceiling speakers when he has clearly stated he wants three pairs of stereo speakers.
talking about my post at the top of this page
Posted on 8/15/18 at 11:08 am to CAD703X
quote:
talking about my post at the top of this page
Gotcha.
Question for you then:
Why did you make two separate posts about
1) losing stereo in his proposed setup
2) Sonos Play 1s vs mono in-ceiling speakers
?
In all seriousness, I fear some people in this thread may discount your points because you've either glossed over his actual question, seem to not fully understand it, or or are using false equivalence to attempt to drive your point home.
Posted on 8/15/18 at 4:38 pm to Hopeful Doc
I always enjoy these threads...
Posted on 8/15/18 at 4:50 pm to Hopeful Doc
quote:
Why did you make two separate posts about
1) losing stereo in his proposed setup
2) Sonos Play 1s vs mono in-ceiling speakers
link to second post? are you referring to my general response regarding the ability with sonos to turn a mono speaker into stereo just by dropping another speaker in the room? that was not directed to the OP as much as to anyone who wants to change an installed speaker from mono to stereo.
i know many people who have 12-15 speakers throughout their house in the form of single speakers in every room of the house and know those audio splitters take perfectly good stereo and output mono because thats how it works when you have more than one set of speakers using the zone2 setup without having to buy multiple AVRs to power more.
quote:
'in-ceiling' speaker in every room is the only way I know to wire those in is to connect a single red/black set of cables from your AVR zone2 outputs to an speaker selector (like an ethernet switch for audio) but you lose stereo at that point and you can't select different audio sources for each room.
i said in that comment this is how i know people do it but didn't say that's what the OP was doing. i guess i should have explicitly retracted my assumption so you won't keep harping on that one comment regarding a minor detail of the install.
so...what does that have to do with all the other stuff i stated? what other points do you disagree with?
This post was edited on 8/15/18 at 4:55 pm
Posted on 8/15/18 at 5:22 pm to CAD703X
second post. Seems like you're talking about him still. Perhaps not.
No. In this thread, we established he wants three pairs of speakers. Your first response in the thread mentions them in mono- not sure where that comes from. Then you mention again that stereo Sonos is better than mono in-ceiling...in a thread about having three pairs of stereo speakers
That's silly. To each their own. Are they early Beatles fans? (I'm kidding)
While I'm sure there are examples of things that do this, there are a ton of very cheap options that will take speaker-level/amplified sound and act as a distributor for stereo. Here's the rear of a Monoprice stereo-in, 4-stereo out version that's around $30. I've used this exact model. It definitely outputs stereo and would definitely allow for amp'd Zone 2 stereo sound in up to 4 zones/areas (all playing the same thing, of course)
From your second comment that I linked, it seemed like you doubled down, which was pretty confusing.
You made a pretty pointed comment about how an installer thinks this is better only due to his profits in a thread talking about how a guy prefers the aesthetics of this. For a DIY'er, this isn't even a particularly difficult installation if you
1) don't mind cutting circles or rectangles in your ceiling and walls
2) can run cable in your attic and up/down a wall
I don't think anyone disagrees that Sonos sounds decent enough for most applications, but I don't exactly understand your insistence that it's better. Is it better than a Pyle pair of $20 speakers with 40-gauge (exaggeration) wire? Yes.
Could you do this yourself in a weekend and get as good to better sound with the guy's preferred (to the point he opens up with saying he doesn't want it) for less money than Sonos? Absolutely.
His AV receiver? Could do analog zone 2 or repeat digital Zone 1. Potential for no cost.
Monoprice speaker selector above? $31.10
Polk RC80i is $150/pair and some decent discreet speakers.
Cables Direct 500ft of 4-conductor speaker wire is $63
Adding volume control knobs at each zone would be the most difficult part (must go down and back up a wall and would probably want to stay away from existing power line runs). They'd run you $20-30 each and up the level of difficulty.
Is there any reason stereo from in-ceiling speakers is inferior to Sonos in your mind?
ETA- I don't mean to say a pro install isn't worth the money. Plenty of folks could screw it up and not place things well.
quote:
are you referring to my general response regarding the ability with sonos to turn a mono speaker into stereo just by dropping another speaker in the room?
No. In this thread, we established he wants three pairs of speakers. Your first response in the thread mentions them in mono- not sure where that comes from. Then you mention again that stereo Sonos is better than mono in-ceiling...in a thread about having three pairs of stereo speakers
quote:
know many people who have 12-15 speakers throughout their house in the form of single speakers in every room of the house
That's silly. To each their own. Are they early Beatles fans? (I'm kidding)
quote:
know those audio splitters take perfectly good stereo and output mono because thats how it works when you have more than one set of speakers using the zone2 setup without having to buy multiple AVRs to power more.
While I'm sure there are examples of things that do this, there are a ton of very cheap options that will take speaker-level/amplified sound and act as a distributor for stereo. Here's the rear of a Monoprice stereo-in, 4-stereo out version that's around $30. I've used this exact model. It definitely outputs stereo and would definitely allow for amp'd Zone 2 stereo sound in up to 4 zones/areas (all playing the same thing, of course)
quote:
i guess i should have explicitly retracted my assumption so you won't keep harping on that one comment regarding a minor detail of the install. ?
From your second comment that I linked, it seemed like you doubled down, which was pretty confusing.
quote:
what does that have to do with all the other stuff i stated? what other points do you disagree with?
You made a pretty pointed comment about how an installer thinks this is better only due to his profits in a thread talking about how a guy prefers the aesthetics of this. For a DIY'er, this isn't even a particularly difficult installation if you
1) don't mind cutting circles or rectangles in your ceiling and walls
2) can run cable in your attic and up/down a wall
I don't think anyone disagrees that Sonos sounds decent enough for most applications, but I don't exactly understand your insistence that it's better. Is it better than a Pyle pair of $20 speakers with 40-gauge (exaggeration) wire? Yes.
Could you do this yourself in a weekend and get as good to better sound with the guy's preferred (to the point he opens up with saying he doesn't want it) for less money than Sonos? Absolutely.
His AV receiver? Could do analog zone 2 or repeat digital Zone 1. Potential for no cost.
Monoprice speaker selector above? $31.10
Polk RC80i is $150/pair and some decent discreet speakers.
Cables Direct 500ft of 4-conductor speaker wire is $63
Adding volume control knobs at each zone would be the most difficult part (must go down and back up a wall and would probably want to stay away from existing power line runs). They'd run you $20-30 each and up the level of difficulty.
Is there any reason stereo from in-ceiling speakers is inferior to Sonos in your mind?
ETA- I don't mean to say a pro install isn't worth the money. Plenty of folks could screw it up and not place things well.
This post was edited on 8/15/18 at 5:38 pm
Posted on 8/15/18 at 5:27 pm to CAD703X
quote:
are you referring to my general response regarding the ability with sonos to turn a mono speaker into stereo just by dropping another speaker in the room?
Wat ?
quote:
who wants to change an installed speaker from mono to stereo.
Wat ?
quote:
know many people who have 12-15 speakers throughout their house in the form of single speakers in every room of the house and know those audio splitters take perfectly good stereo and output mono because thats how it works when you have more than one set of speakers using the zone2 setup without having to buy multiple AVRs to power more.
No, that’s not how it works.
It’s obvious now you don’t know what you are talking about and that’s why you like SONOS so much. Nothing wrong with that.
Posted on 8/15/18 at 8:04 pm to CAD703X
Impressive rant. How much do you get paid by Sonos for your effort? Or are you just that insecure that you need everyone to buy into them as hard as you have?
You get people trying to make money. Little more.
I'm watching Infinity War on a Sonos 5.1 setup as I type this. I went Sonos because we share a wall with our neighbors at this house and it was good enough. My place up north has a theater room, and a real setup in it. It's not even close.
So, like I said, it's OK for what it is. Still, if getting the best quality is my priority, I'm looking elsewhere.
Honda and Toyota can say close to the same thing when compared to other vehicles...
That's nice. Most people aren't going to spend as much time as you looking for rare Craigslist sellers who don't know how to use the Internet. Others, like me, don't give a shite about money.
quote:
Google audiophile Sonos and you get articles
You get people trying to make money. Little more.
quote:
To each their own but it's laughable to dismiss Sonos
I'm watching Infinity War on a Sonos 5.1 setup as I type this. I went Sonos because we share a wall with our neighbors at this house and it was good enough. My place up north has a theater room, and a real setup in it. It's not even close.
So, like I said, it's OK for what it is. Still, if getting the best quality is my priority, I'm looking elsewhere.
quote:
There's a reason even 10+ year old Sonos products can still be sold at 99% of their original price.
Honda and Toyota can say close to the same thing when compared to other vehicles...
quote:
Eta my investment risk going with Sonos < $0.
That's nice. Most people aren't going to spend as much time as you looking for rare Craigslist sellers who don't know how to use the Internet. Others, like me, don't give a shite about money.
Posted on 8/15/18 at 8:08 pm to CAD703X
quote:
I was responding to someone who said Sonos wasn't a real audio system
No you weren't.
Posted on 8/15/18 at 8:25 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
So, should I get a Sonos or not?
I am confused...
I am confused...
Posted on 8/15/18 at 8:34 pm to Marco Esquandolas
Depends who you're asking.
Posted on 8/15/18 at 9:05 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Will it sound better than my receiver/5.1 set-up, or should I just get 5 separate Playbars?
I would like to hide the wires if at all possible—wife says they are ugly.
I would like to hide the wires if at all possible—wife says they are ugly.
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