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What would you do if you were in charge (Fan violence)
Posted on 4/26/18 at 1:56 pm
Posted on 4/26/18 at 1:56 pm
There is a semifinal Cup match between two of the best teams in your league. In the 57th minute, one of the players on the visiting team gets annoyed with non-racial taunts from the crowd and starts yelling at ultras sitting nearby. His coach goes to restrain him. The ultras throw some objects at the player and instead hit the coach as he is trying to get his player back to the bench area.
The coach needs 5 stitches. No fans enter the field. No other in-game fights occur, but the referees decide to abandon the match at the time of the coach being hit in the head (it's the 57th minute).
If you are in charge of the league and have the power to determine what happens, what do you do?
1) Play the final 33 minutes in a neutral stadium with no fans
2) Award the match to the visiting team via forfiet
3) Replay the entire game on a neutral stadium without any fans
4) Something else
In this entirely hypothetical
scenario, assume that the league has already gone with a 3 match home ban and a $250,000 fine.
The coach needs 5 stitches. No fans enter the field. No other in-game fights occur, but the referees decide to abandon the match at the time of the coach being hit in the head (it's the 57th minute).
If you are in charge of the league and have the power to determine what happens, what do you do?
1) Play the final 33 minutes in a neutral stadium with no fans
2) Award the match to the visiting team via forfiet
3) Replay the entire game on a neutral stadium without any fans
4) Something else
In this entirely hypothetical
scenario, assume that the league has already gone with a 3 match home ban and a $250,000 fine.
8
Posted on 4/26/18 at 2:07 pm to Keys Open Doors
Award the match to the visiting team and threaten more sanctions unless the ultras give up the offending party.
I honestly have no idea how to fix this situation.
I honestly have no idea how to fix this situation.
Posted on 4/26/18 at 2:15 pm to crazy4lsu
Oh I should add that all of the offending parties (the ultras) have been arrested.
Posted on 4/26/18 at 2:18 pm to Keys Open Doors
Finish he rest of the game the following day in the same stadium but with no fans.
If any fan that threw items could be identified, I'd ban them for life and urge the whoever to press charges.
If the home team doesn't have a history of violent fans, I wouldn't give them a home match ban. I would try suspending the ultra group before getting to that point.
If any fan that threw items could be identified, I'd ban them for life and urge the whoever to press charges.
If the home team doesn't have a history of violent fans, I wouldn't give them a home match ban. I would try suspending the ultra group before getting to that point.
Posted on 4/26/18 at 6:26 pm to Keys Open Doors
It's such a difficult decision aside from finding the actual Ultras that cause problems because:
1) Ultras that cause the biggest problems do not care if matches are forfeited, points deducted, matches played in empty stadiums. It's the opposite, it emboldens them and they wear it like a badge of having shown their power.
2) It is almost always a two way street. Ultras do shite against clubs that also have equal ultras groups. While everyone sits at home horrified by video of a final violent act, what they don't see--or efface-- are the literally hundreds of instances of Ultras of both teams egging each other in skirmishes, throwing shite etc the whole afternoon. The other Ultras love to provoke an attack/ instance that cause the other team to get punished.
3) The vast majority of clubs in Europe do not own their stadiums, the cities do. Therefore, the little control they have over policing/security is merely through lobbying local politicians/police commissioners.
Sure, the more they lose money by fines, empty stands, they harder they will lobby but it's also a bit unfair to say a club that doesn't own their stadium is on equal footing with ones that do in terms of security.
The security shortcomings are much more often due to cities and local police commissioners cutting corners and not due to the clubs being disinterested.
1) Ultras that cause the biggest problems do not care if matches are forfeited, points deducted, matches played in empty stadiums. It's the opposite, it emboldens them and they wear it like a badge of having shown their power.
2) It is almost always a two way street. Ultras do shite against clubs that also have equal ultras groups. While everyone sits at home horrified by video of a final violent act, what they don't see--or efface-- are the literally hundreds of instances of Ultras of both teams egging each other in skirmishes, throwing shite etc the whole afternoon. The other Ultras love to provoke an attack/ instance that cause the other team to get punished.
3) The vast majority of clubs in Europe do not own their stadiums, the cities do. Therefore, the little control they have over policing/security is merely through lobbying local politicians/police commissioners.
Sure, the more they lose money by fines, empty stands, they harder they will lobby but it's also a bit unfair to say a club that doesn't own their stadium is on equal footing with ones that do in terms of security.
The security shortcomings are much more often due to cities and local police commissioners cutting corners and not due to the clubs being disinterested.
This post was edited on 4/26/18 at 6:47 pm
Posted on 4/26/18 at 6:30 pm to wm72
quote:the rest of the fans need to keep them in line... Police your own
1) Ultras that cause the biggest problems do not care if matches are forfeited, points deducted, matches played in empty stadiums. It's the opposite, it emboldens them and they wear it like a badge of having shown their power.
I'd go with option 2. IMO they accept too much from fans in terms of behavior
This post was edited on 4/26/18 at 6:34 pm
Posted on 4/26/18 at 6:34 pm to chalmetteowl
quote:Average fans “policing” true ultras, aka violent, misguided, crazies looking for any reason to push their extreme political point of views even if it means seriously harming someone else while they don’t really care all that much about the actual football team, might not be the best idea...
the rest of the fans need to keep them in line... Police your own
Posted on 4/26/18 at 6:36 pm to chalmetteowl
quote:
the rest of the fans need to keep them in line... Police your own
No offense but that's crazy.
I'm sure as hell not going to get into a fight with a lot of nutjobs anymore than I'm going to walk around Brooklyn tonight and kick some drug dealing gangbanger's asses to keep them in line.
Posted on 4/26/18 at 6:43 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Award the match to the visiting team
Im with this, especially if theyve already been fined.
After that, they lose home games until they can keep control of the crowd.
Would suck for them to not play a home game for an entire year.
Posted on 4/26/18 at 10:07 pm to Keys Open Doors
If you start forfeiting matches based on fan behavior too frequently, you’ll have fans posing as opposing fans and creating havoc as a ploy for their team to be awarded a win.
Posted on 4/27/18 at 1:09 am to Keys Open Doors
The reason why I posted this is because (as some of you probably know), I just described exactly what happened between Fenerbahce and Besiktas in the Turkish Cup. Fenerbahce was ahead on away goals and up 11-10 men after Pepe got a red card and then, in an unrelated incident the back-up Besiktas goalie got into it with the Fener fans. The head coach of Besiktas got hit in the head trying to get him back to the bench.
This happened on the 19th of April. The Federation decided to replay the last 33 minutes in a neutral stadium next week, once things had cooled off between the two sides. However, earlier today Besiktas refused to play the final 33 minutes on a neutral site. They thought either they should advance automatically or not play in the final at all.
I think the Federation is really in a tough spot where they were going to be criticized no matter what they did. So now it appears that Fenerbahce will go directly to the final. The 2018 Cup will be cheapened big time because of this incident and I am sure next year's game at Besiktas is going to a complete shitshow as they generally have far more hardcore fans than the other Istanbul sides.
The Besiktas back-up goalie got a 1 game suspension, Fenerbahce will play 3 games without fans (I assume this will be for Cup games instead of League games), and the club got a $250,000 fine. Also 8 people were arrested for the incident.
Interesting to see you guys were mostly split between 1 and 2.
This happened on the 19th of April. The Federation decided to replay the last 33 minutes in a neutral stadium next week, once things had cooled off between the two sides. However, earlier today Besiktas refused to play the final 33 minutes on a neutral site. They thought either they should advance automatically or not play in the final at all.
I think the Federation is really in a tough spot where they were going to be criticized no matter what they did. So now it appears that Fenerbahce will go directly to the final. The 2018 Cup will be cheapened big time because of this incident and I am sure next year's game at Besiktas is going to a complete shitshow as they generally have far more hardcore fans than the other Istanbul sides.
The Besiktas back-up goalie got a 1 game suspension, Fenerbahce will play 3 games without fans (I assume this will be for Cup games instead of League games), and the club got a $250,000 fine. Also 8 people were arrested for the incident.
Interesting to see you guys were mostly split between 1 and 2.
Posted on 4/27/18 at 6:39 am to Keys Open Doors
I think I saw that there was a rule in place that Besiktas should automatically go ahead due to the incident. I could have read that completely wrong or it could be total BS but I believe that’s part of the reason Besiktas is refusing to play because they believe they shouldn’t have to
Posted on 4/27/18 at 6:42 am to Keys Open Doors
No fans would seem the only way.
Posted on 4/27/18 at 8:43 am to Keys Open Doors
For one, this depends on where it’s at.
Oh, it’s Turkey.
You tell the visiting team they were lucky to have made it 57 minutes without serious incident. Force the home team to put up a better fence (beyond that tiny fence they already have). Start the match again at 57 minutes in an empty stadium.
Oh, it’s Turkey.
You tell the visiting team they were lucky to have made it 57 minutes without serious incident. Force the home team to put up a better fence (beyond that tiny fence they already have). Start the match again at 57 minutes in an empty stadium.
Posted on 4/27/18 at 1:13 pm to Keys Open Doors
Are the ultras trying to get their own team punished? Because that's a question you have to ask in Eastern Europe.
Posted on 4/27/18 at 3:56 pm to TN Bhoy
Not in this case. Although there are some who believe that the coach of Besiktas wasn't actually in need of stitches and the doctor did it anyway just so it would look worse (I don't believe this but others do).
Posted on 4/30/18 at 4:09 pm to Keys Open Doors
If I'm.the federation, I use video to Id and ban miscreants.
I like the bigger fence idea. Blues bros approve.
I'd keep current negotiations open. If possible play the last 33 in empty stadium.
I like the bigger fence idea. Blues bros approve.
I'd keep current negotiations open. If possible play the last 33 in empty stadium.
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