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re: tOfficial Liverpool 2017/2018 Thread: “Upgrades Incoming Edition: A Great Season!”

Posted on 9/1/17 at 7:51 am to
Posted by beatbammer
Member since Sep 2010
38811 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 7:51 am to
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/liverpool-couldnt-sell-philippe-coutinho-transfer-barcelona-pep-segura-john-w-henry-a7923351.html

quote:

The inside story of why Liverpool simply couldn't buckle and sell Philippe Coutinho to a man they used to know
Posted by Tigerstark
Parts unknown
Member since Aug 2011
7024 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 7:53 am to
quote:

When SOTON hit us for "tapping up" it changed everything... If we'd publicly apologized, and "ended our interest" and then in the SAME WINDOW approached with a bid to buy (yes even after his transfer request) it would have looked so shitty to the FA that it would have been possible to be hit with a transfer ban, and I think literally every LFC would agree that that would be a massive blow


Agree 100%. We were essentially dependent upon someone else tabling a bid first, and hopefully Southampton responding. This would open things up tremendously. I have a feeling Chelsea and a few others figured out that submitting a bid would only help us land him.

I will say - I may have overstepped by saying the window was a failure without a CB, but I do think this is an unnecessary risk - hell there has to be a 30-32 year old somewhere in Europe that we could have brought in as the 5tch choice CB? Doesn't have to be a locked in starter, but quality and depth at CB (separate issues that could be solved independent of eachother) is a big thing.

Matip missed multiple games last season with a recurring ankle issue. Klavan had a stretch out. Gomez has NEVER had a run of games at the senior PL level where he was healthy - the injuries could be behind him and they could also not be? Lovren has a virus, knee, ankle issue 4-6 times a season which holds him out for a week each. Klopp is banking on NONE of these overlapping at all. And we don't even really have a U23 CB that's worth an emergency look from what I can tell.

Klopp is fantastic, but that doesn't mean he won't make mistakes and is immune from criticism. He's admitted himself the squad depth last season was a mistake, particularly not brining in someone in January. He's making another one here.

Posted by Tigerstark
Parts unknown
Member since Aug 2011
7024 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 7:58 am to
Interesting article more for the facts than the opinions (which are generally crap). Also the colored in background ("Long memory, etc.") clearly reveals that most of the info comes from the Barca side, meaning its heavily influenced by their media games.

Phil's "short term housing lease" should be no concern of Liverpools - dude's been here for years, he can rent, buy or whatever he want. Should Liverpool care (or even know) how their players do for housing? If Cou knew he would be leaving (enough to sign a short term lease), why sign a 5 year contract without a release clause?

The info about the back scan, John Henry himself stepping in, and how things went with the Rodgers hire (and lack of DOF) are all interesting though. Also tells you why Klopp was suddenly saying "the owner makes the decision". I wonder if it were up to Klopp entirely if he would have let him go?

Posted by Tigerfan7218
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2010
14251 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:28 am to
I agree with you wholeheartedly, I'm not of the opinion that Klopp is perfect or immune from mistakes, and he definitely made one by not bringing in any CB... I just think the fanbase as a whole is overreacting, and hey Southampton has already hinted they may be willing to move VVD in January, so I don't think all hope is lost in us bringing him in for this season
Posted by Meursault
Member since Sep 2003
25261 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:37 am to
That's how I feel as well. On the positive side our attack is phenomenal, our midfield is coming along nicely, and we should have no problems advancing out of our CL group. 4 central defenders should be adequate for 4 months. Let's just see how it plays out. Let's see if we make any moves in January.
Posted by STB
AR
Member since Oct 2012
1088 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 9:00 am to
quote:

Emre Can continues his stand-off with Liverpool as the German won't renew his contract. He already has an agreement to join Max Allegri at Juventus next season. (Corriere dello Sport)


This was in the Sky transfer center. I'd be pretty bummed if we didn't work something out with him to stay.
Posted by beatbammer
Member since Sep 2010
38811 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 9:25 am to
quote:

This was in the Sky transfer center. I'd be pretty bummed if we didn't work something out with him to stay.


Can is very good and improving.

That being said, I think he has a lot higher opinion of himself than he really is.

All of this depends on what he is demanding from the club. If he is demanding that he be made the highest paid player on the club (or even close to that), well, he's not worth that and he doesn't deserve it yet. And with Keita coming in next year, he may be getting more time playing DM instead of AM and I'm betting that is something he doesn't want at all.

The circumstances surrounding Can suck for the club right now but, good for him, he holds the cards right now. And unless Liverpool offer him stupid money (which he doesn't deserve IMO), he could likely be gone. Sell him in January and get some return for him.
Posted by TFTC
Chicago, Il
Member since May 2010
23572 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 9:35 am to
Towards the end of last season, he said he prefers to play as the #6...

LINK
Posted by beatbammer
Member since Sep 2010
38811 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 9:45 am to
Well, interesting.

Because he sure looks a lot more effective on his rampaging charges forward than he ever has kicking the ball sideways and backwards at #6.

BTW, not applicable to the Can situation, just a general Klopp quote I just read (quoted by Melissa Reddy on Twitter):

quote:

“It’s really important in life that you value what you get - you think, we did good in this, were best in this, need to work on this”
Posted by Tigerfan7218
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2010
14251 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 10:56 am to
Sums it up for me

Really couldn't have said it any better, definitely not doom and gloom time at the club
Posted by beatbammer
Member since Sep 2010
38811 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 11:17 am to
quote:

Sums it up for me

Really couldn't have said it any better, definitely not doom and gloom time at the club


Bravo... bravissimo.

Posted by TFTC
Chicago, Il
Member since May 2010
23572 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 12:42 pm to
Yep, as disappointed as I am in the fact that I'll have to see Lovren week in and week out... I will go back to my optimistic self! Atleast we have a great attack!
Posted by TheZaba
FL
Member since Oct 2008
6196 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 12:50 pm to
So now that the window's closed, what do y'all think the lineup will look like next Sunday?

Mané-Firmino-Salah
Can-Hendo-Ox
Robertson-Lovren-Matip-TAA

Kind of a mix between what I expect and what I want to see. I wouldn't be surprised to see Moreno and Wijnaldum/Milner instead of bringing in the new faces. I wouldn't be surprised to see Coutinho start either but I expect him to start on the bench
Posted by Tigerfan7218
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2010
14251 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 2:10 pm to
Agreed with Cou on the bench... We may see Gini in the MF and Ox on the bench
Posted by TFTC
Chicago, Il
Member since May 2010
23572 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 2:11 pm to
Wij and Moreno...

One last thing I'll add about this summer... as disappointing as it was not to address the CB situation. I think it was just brilliant to lock up Keita... we're def getting better at this transfer thing under FSG
Posted by beatbammer
Member since Sep 2010
38811 posts
Posted on 9/2/17 at 6:26 am to
And, even after its all over, Barca continues to feed its fans and its lap-dog media lies.

https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/liverpool-demanded-200m-for-coutinho-claims-barcelona-soler/1ge70eskuoyt5165r3rup58ffq

quote:

Barcelona subsequently made a late attempt to sign the 25-year-old before the transfer window closed only for Liverpool to request a whopping €200m.

"After weeks of negotiations, yesterday Liverpool asked us for €200m for the player," Soler told a news conference on Saturday. "We will not put the club at risk.

"We have always worked with the mission not to put at risk the heritage and the viability of the club which is owned by the members.

"The fact that PSG came up with €222m [for Neymar] caused everyone to know that the club had money. When you go to the market and clubs know that you have a lot of money, the requests were exorbitant."

Barcelona technical director Robert Fernandez claimed Coutinho made a "big effort" to try to engineer a switch to Camp Nou.

"Liverpool were asking for €200m so logically we didn’t accept that," he said.
Posted by TheZaba
FL
Member since Oct 2008
6196 posts
Posted on 9/2/17 at 8:33 am to
quote:

Chris Bascombe @_ChrisBascombe LFC position on Barca claims today is they are absolutely false. Not true in any shape or form.
And could you imagine if we came out and applauded VVD's efforts for trying to force a move? We'd have a transfer ban for life
Posted by beatbammer
Member since Sep 2010
38811 posts
Posted on 9/2/17 at 10:06 pm to
https://www.footballparadise.com/dawn-of-the-superego-liverpools-coutinho-stance-shifts-transfer-market-balance/

quote:

Dawn of the Superego: Liverpool’s Coutinho Stance Shifts Transfer Market Balance


quote:

The assumed air of Pep Segura’s declarations regarding Coutinho, days after the FSG statement of non-cooperation undermined the Liverpool owners. The manner of sabotage advising Coutinho to make himself unavailable ahead of Liverpool’s crucial Champions League Qualifier vs Hoffenheim went beyond the Barcelona custom of player-tapping. The irreverent means used by Segura was a slap in the face to his former employers. John W. Henry would not have any of that.

‘Legacy-building’ is a key-word the Fenway Sporting Group often use in their presentations. The resuscitation of the Boston Red Sox will be a time-honoured example of that in American sporting history. Their epic swindle with former British Airways CEO, Martin Broughton (who was in charge of finding sellers for Liverpool) saved Liverpool from the clutches of liquidation. Selling Coutinho, despite being in a position of strength would have sent all the wrong signals to an already on-edge fan-base, potential players, as well as the rest of Europeans sharks, and made dust of the foundations they have stood on.

The Coutinho no-sell has set the template for Champions League clubs to subvert player power. Liverpool have been victims of top players overriding contractual obligations in recent memory. The event sets a powerful precedent. For too long the club has been bullied into selling by agents. Liverpool, like others, are now beginning to exercise the powers of a contract, a team of lawyers, and the luxury of Champions League-shaped cash-cushion.

Wittingly/unwittingly, the move has also inspired RB Leipzig and Southampton to show the same kind of savvy staunchness. The clubs are beginning to wrestle back the narrative from the middle-men (something John Barnes predicted last year). Player power will take a downturn, as will agents’ fees. Liverpool could have reported Barcelona, but refusing to do business altogether sends a far more resounding reply, that may perhaps send ripples across Europe.

Agents now more than ever, will be more inclined to set up release clauses in improved contracts, which consequently, will allow the club to negotiate a figure that comes closest to their projected valuation of the player. In the current climate of market inflation, clubs stand the chance of being well-compensated. The knock-on effect could see agent fees the buying club pays during sign-on take a proportionable dive.

The Mes Que Un Club are slipping. The Neymar faux pas has exposed Barcelona’s warty underbelly. Liverpool has grudges to hold. It wasn’t beyond Barcelona to ask Javier Mascherano to go on strike. It wasn’t beyond the Catalans giants to offer a bite-sized advice to Luis Suarez to make his position at Liverpool impossible after the World Cup. It came as little surprise when Coutinho feigned injury. The most intriguing part of the Coutinho saga will begin when the player returns.

Egos need to be swallowed, mutually. It’s upto Phil Coutinho, the player who was given the Liverpool armband days before his e-mailed transfer request, to apologise and own up. It’s also (critically) important for Klopp to put an arm around the naive young man and make him realise that Barcelona couldn’t care less about his reputation.

Barcelona merely sees Coutinho as a passive instrument of the kind of institution they represent. Its well-being is dependant on the simple arithmetics of votes, trophies, tax dollars evaded, and not sentiment. Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool is home, Josep Bartomeu’s Barcelona is a sideshow with all the cheap tricks showing.
Posted by TheZaba
FL
Member since Oct 2008
6196 posts
Posted on 9/3/17 at 8:33 am to
Since it wasn't posted

Ben Woodburn scored his first goal for Wales
Posted by TFTC
Chicago, Il
Member since May 2010
23572 posts
Posted on 9/3/17 at 9:03 am to
Did you see that Hasselhoff tweeted about it?
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