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Message
re: Potential of the USA in soccer
Posted on 4/23/12 at 6:55 pm to inelishaitrust
Posted on 4/23/12 at 6:55 pm to inelishaitrust
quote:
You look at when those national teams were winning world cups, and their domestic league were at all time highs. The super club thing is where it's at as far as the international game is concerned.
So you're saying it's time for a MLS club like LA to go out and buy Dempsey, Jozy, Timmy Howard, Stu Bear, Bradley, etc.? Get rid of the salary cap and let the richest club run wild.
1
Posted on 4/23/12 at 6:59 pm to MetTiger
quote:
MetTiger
TL; DR
In spite of your hang ups about club soccer, the primary reason that the US is where it is rests mainly with the fact that kids don't SEE (or at the least, relate to) millionaire soccer players. Cristiano Ronaldo might as well be Marvin the Martian. Most can't pronounce his name, and damn sure couldn't find Portugal on a map.
They see millionaire basketball and football players, so they play those sports. For the same reason that baseball participation has declined and the number of Latin players has multiplied.
Chris Paul makes what.... 20 times, 30 times what Landon Donovan makes? Christ, Tyrus Thomas makes that.
Fix that, and you'll see elite (read: black) athletes playing soccer.
It has little (if any) to do with the rich kids getting chosen to start in front of the not as rich kids in the club soccer scene.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 7:01 pm to WarSlamEagle
quote:
So you're saying it's time for a MLS club like LA to go out and buy Dempsey, Jozy, Timmy Howard, Stu Bear, Bradley, etc.? Get rid of the salary cap and let the richest club run wild.
No. I'm saying that it's going to take some time. We're headed in the right direction, though. And the yanks abroad who are actually getting pt need to stay abroad.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 7:05 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
The modern international game has never favored physical play, so we wouldn't gain a particular advantage by having a large team.
Yeah, so much is made of superior "freak" athletes in these conversations when, instead of Lebron, or Jordan, someone like John Stockton may well have been our Pirlo had he grown up playing soccer.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 7:07 pm to wm72
quote:
John Stockton may well have been our Pirlo had he grown up playing soccer.
Yep. A guy like Chris Paul would be perfect now with his great vision and quickness. The Lebrons and Jordans really don't fit the mold.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 7:11 pm to tigerfan88
It's not just that we're lacking in the urban areas for our soccer talent, we're also lacking in the right kinds of talent our soccer teams are attracting.
Guys like Landon Donovan, Jozy Altidore, and hell even Clint Dempsey could have probably been decently successful football, baseball or basketball players, but they chose soccer.
Guys with limited professional sports prospects like an Anthony Hickey (undersized PG) or Russell Shepard (freak football athlete with a limited position) could have been superb footballers. Hickey is 5'10 or 11 and extremely quick and intelligent player, Wayne Rooney is of a similar stature and often lauded for being an agile, wily player.
Messi, Iniesta, Xavi have an insane amount of fitness, but are not really physical specimens. We just need to get more of the undersized PG, PF, WR, QB (or anyone wasting their athletic talents on dip spitting baseball) who won't amount to shite in the pros, to play soccer instead.
And to the guy complaining about club soccer, and its effect on the USMNT, you sound like an ignorant whiny bitch. By your logic nobody wants to watch Virginia Tech or Wisconsin football because they're perennially ranked in the 12-25 range every season. If that's the case, Spain wouldn't have any support after they constantly underachieved for 40 years prior to 2008. The whole, "we're not the best country at it, so our kids don't want to play soccer" argument is utter bullshite.
Kids still play baseball/basketball even though we've embarrassed ourselves at the World Baseball Classic and recently finished 3rd and 6th in international basketball competitions.
Guys like Landon Donovan, Jozy Altidore, and hell even Clint Dempsey could have probably been decently successful football, baseball or basketball players, but they chose soccer.
Guys with limited professional sports prospects like an Anthony Hickey (undersized PG) or Russell Shepard (freak football athlete with a limited position) could have been superb footballers. Hickey is 5'10 or 11 and extremely quick and intelligent player, Wayne Rooney is of a similar stature and often lauded for being an agile, wily player.
Messi, Iniesta, Xavi have an insane amount of fitness, but are not really physical specimens. We just need to get more of the undersized PG, PF, WR, QB (or anyone wasting their athletic talents on dip spitting baseball) who won't amount to shite in the pros, to play soccer instead.
And to the guy complaining about club soccer, and its effect on the USMNT, you sound like an ignorant whiny bitch. By your logic nobody wants to watch Virginia Tech or Wisconsin football because they're perennially ranked in the 12-25 range every season. If that's the case, Spain wouldn't have any support after they constantly underachieved for 40 years prior to 2008. The whole, "we're not the best country at it, so our kids don't want to play soccer" argument is utter bullshite.
Kids still play baseball/basketball even though we've embarrassed ourselves at the World Baseball Classic and recently finished 3rd and 6th in international basketball competitions.
This post was edited on 4/23/12 at 7:17 pm
Posted on 4/23/12 at 7:18 pm to thenry712
quote:
The whole, "we're not the best country at it, so our kids don't want to play soccer" argument is utter bullshite. Kids still play baseball even though we've embarrassed ourselves at the World Baseball Classic and recently finished 3rd and 6th in international basketball competitions.
And we invented those sports playing both of them much longer than anyone else. Hell Japan is the only country east of Boston that plays baseball.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 7:21 pm to inelishaitrust
South Korea does, but that's neither here nor there.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 7:22 pm to thenry712
quote:
South Korea does, but that's neither here nor there.
it's there.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 7:25 pm to inelishaitrust
quote:
No. I'm saying that it's going to take some time. We're headed in the right direction, though. And the yanks abroad who are actually getting pt need to stay abroad.
I know. It was a joke. Kinda. I'd love to see the MLS grow to be a Top 10 or even Top 5 league in the world in the next decade or two.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 8:21 pm to glassman
quote:
Yep. A guy like Chris Paul
Or Steve Nash...
oh wait.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 8:48 pm to Jumbeauxlaya
I agree there is to many sports in america, the other sports are popular because of the coverage they get. On SC most of the time you never see a soccer highlight. If talented athletes don't know about the game why would they play. You see baseball, basketball, and football players making 12-15 million $ a year. The game needs to get more exposure
Posted on 4/23/12 at 9:01 pm to fightingtigers98
quote:
The game needs to get more exposure
It will get exposure, but building a soccer power takes generations. We, as U.S. soccer fans, have to be comfortable with that, because we don't have any other option. Soccer won't become a legitimate sport overnight in this country. We have to do it by piecemeal.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 11:04 pm to inelishaitrust
quote:
The main difference between Spain and Argentina is that spain's great players play together every day, and argentina's are spread across the globe.
i think america could develop in the same line as brazil, honestly (assuming our skill level increases)
Posted on 4/23/12 at 11:06 pm to thenry712
quote:
Guys with limited professional sports prospects like an Anthony Hickey (undersized PG) or Russell Shepard (freak football athlete with a limited position) could have been superb footballers. Hickey is 5'10 or 11 and extremely quick and intelligent player, Wayne Rooney is of a similar stature and often lauded for being an agile, wily player.
i've said that for years
you take all of the backup point guards on D1AA schools, as well as their CB counterparts, and put them into the soccer pool since age 6 and not only do you not detract from the "American" sports, but our pool of talent is exponentially greater
Posted on 4/24/12 at 1:39 pm to SlowFlowPro
OK, yes, I have been hard on club soccer. Again, initially it was great in developing a soccer structure. The first kids benefitting from club soccer really boosted the sport in the USA. Now that youth soccer is established as a "cool thing" the 2nd generation of parents/players are not quite the same as the first. Maybe that's why we're not moving up given the participation.
I understand that I am preaching to the choir here. Most posters are club soccer parents. I understand the defensiveness. Many of you probably aren't a problem at all.
But the expensive club system is hard for inner city kids to crack, by it's nature, and even further by individual powerful parents. Honestly, if the best players were inner city kids and were given free rides in the club system, I just don't see the paying parents paying club dues for their kids to sit the bench or get cut. They'll just start a new club so their kids can start. It happens in travel baseball all the time, but it's single teams, not entire organizations.
That's all I am saying, there has to be a different youth developmental structure for the US to eventually win a World Cup.
Other things are really out of our control. Like FIFA not granting us a World Cup in favor of the desert? Or FIFA not slightly modernizing the rules to take advantage of American's tastes, like modifying overtime rules. I can assure you that after 90 minutes, US sports fans don't want to slog two mandatory full time overtime periods. Game is tied after regulation, should be sudden death - every time. Shootouts should be a very last resort after 30 minutes of OT play. Or why not instant replay on goals? No brainer. American Sports constantly tweak the rules to accomodate change.
With college and NFL football being a 365 day a year sport, the window of attention for soccer has actually shrunken. The only way soccer will ever get any attention is winning the World Cup. Go in the backrooms of ABC, NBC, ESPN, thats what they are saying.
And to win the World Cup, you need the best athletes in the country playing soccer. That's not happening now, and will never under the current structure.
Same thing going on in youth baseball, 20 years ago, more Americans played in the MLB than today, and most players played locally (and basically free) at playgrounds and schools. Now, with travel ball totally taking over, so has the daddy money. You'd think with all the lessons, academies, expensive equipment, club/travel teams, big time tournaments, lots of travel, etc., MORE Americans would be in the majors? Not so, more Latins and Asians are playing in MLB now than ever before. So how do you figure this? MLB is not impressed with the American players. The money corrupts the process, good players are squeezed out by parents not being able to afford it. We've lived it, we can afford the minimums, and have had great success. But I'm not drinking the travel baseball Kool-Aid either.
Just be honest with yourselves, and good luck.
I understand that I am preaching to the choir here. Most posters are club soccer parents. I understand the defensiveness. Many of you probably aren't a problem at all.
But the expensive club system is hard for inner city kids to crack, by it's nature, and even further by individual powerful parents. Honestly, if the best players were inner city kids and were given free rides in the club system, I just don't see the paying parents paying club dues for their kids to sit the bench or get cut. They'll just start a new club so their kids can start. It happens in travel baseball all the time, but it's single teams, not entire organizations.
That's all I am saying, there has to be a different youth developmental structure for the US to eventually win a World Cup.
Other things are really out of our control. Like FIFA not granting us a World Cup in favor of the desert? Or FIFA not slightly modernizing the rules to take advantage of American's tastes, like modifying overtime rules. I can assure you that after 90 minutes, US sports fans don't want to slog two mandatory full time overtime periods. Game is tied after regulation, should be sudden death - every time. Shootouts should be a very last resort after 30 minutes of OT play. Or why not instant replay on goals? No brainer. American Sports constantly tweak the rules to accomodate change.
With college and NFL football being a 365 day a year sport, the window of attention for soccer has actually shrunken. The only way soccer will ever get any attention is winning the World Cup. Go in the backrooms of ABC, NBC, ESPN, thats what they are saying.
And to win the World Cup, you need the best athletes in the country playing soccer. That's not happening now, and will never under the current structure.
Same thing going on in youth baseball, 20 years ago, more Americans played in the MLB than today, and most players played locally (and basically free) at playgrounds and schools. Now, with travel ball totally taking over, so has the daddy money. You'd think with all the lessons, academies, expensive equipment, club/travel teams, big time tournaments, lots of travel, etc., MORE Americans would be in the majors? Not so, more Latins and Asians are playing in MLB now than ever before. So how do you figure this? MLB is not impressed with the American players. The money corrupts the process, good players are squeezed out by parents not being able to afford it. We've lived it, we can afford the minimums, and have had great success. But I'm not drinking the travel baseball Kool-Aid either.
Just be honest with yourselves, and good luck.
This post was edited on 4/24/12 at 1:41 pm
Posted on 4/24/12 at 1:56 pm to MetTiger
quote:
Other things are really out of our control. Like FIFA not granting us a World Cup in favor of the desert? Or FIFA not slightly modernizing the rules to take advantage of American's tastes, like modifying overtime rules. I can assure you that after 90 minutes, US sports fans don't want to slog two mandatory full time overtime periods. Game is tied after regulation, should be sudden death - every time. Shootouts should be a very last resort after 30 minutes of OT play. Or why not instant replay on goals? No brainer. American Sports constantly tweak the rules to accomodate change.
Lost me here.. So you don't like overtime in basketball or the nfl, or extra innings in baseball?
The ONLY things that need to change is to allow retroactive punishments for dives, goal line technology and possibly replays on iffy offsides calls
Posted on 4/24/12 at 2:23 pm to MetTiger
quote:
MetTiger
All that's resonated with me is that you don't like Kool-Aid.
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