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Posted on 8/1/14 at 10:16 am to TFTC
Sounds right
I don't get it though - unless he is adamant about leaving, I don't see how you sell him
I don't get it though - unless he is adamant about leaving, I don't see how you sell him
Posted on 8/1/14 at 10:16 am to PeepleHeppinBidness
quote:
I would not consider Lambert a false 9.
He certainly played that role for SOTON. Falling back, and aiding in the passing to the flanks.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 10:22 am to Meursault
quote:
He certainly played that role for SOTON. Falling back, and aiding in the passing to the flanks.
he def is a good passer... not just an Andy Carroll type of CF..
Posted on 8/1/14 at 10:25 am to TFTC
quote:
not just an Andy Carroll type of CF..
Theres only one andy carroll only oneeee andddyyyy carroll
Posted on 8/1/14 at 10:27 am to Meursault
quote:
He certainly played that role for SOTON. Falling back, and aiding in the passing to the flanks.
Every center forward in the world does this. Torres, Costa...Andy Carroll
The False #9 is someone like Cesc Fabregas for Spain during Euro 2012. Mario Götze for Germany at the World Cup when Löw played a 4-3-3 is another example.
These are conventional attacking midfielders who are asked to drop deep and play across the attacking third.
This post was edited on 8/1/14 at 10:28 am
Posted on 8/1/14 at 10:35 am to Meursault
quote:
Lambert is more of poacher and not so much . . . holding it up top while the play develops
quote:
Agreed. He's a false 9 more than anything else
Definition of a traditional number 9:
Number 9: The original number 9 is the word for a striker whose main objective is to score goals. There are plenty of words to describe goalscorers, but the best way to describe a traditional number 9 is a player who is seen as a 'poacher'. These are your typical players who are quick with their feet and base their movement off the last defender. The best example of a traditional number 9 in the modern game is probably Falcao for Atletico Madrid.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 10:38 am to PeepleHeppinBidness
I agree he is a traditional CF/#9, but he is NOT just a poacher...
Posted on 8/1/14 at 10:44 am to thenry712
quote:
These are conventional attacking midfielders who are asked to drop deep and play across the attacking third.
So what does that make Lambert if he does the exact same thing? He does fall back, and does show creativity with the ball. A lot more so than a guy like Carroll like you would suggest. Furthermore SOTON ran him specifically in that role because of that ability. For me it's a false 9.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 10:51 am to TFTC
Lambert is by no means a false 9. That would be like saying every targetman is a false 9 because they have the ability to come back to the ball and allow runners to move past them into the space created when the CB follows them upfield.
For me a false 9 is a attacking player who prefers to face the CB's head on rather with his back toward goal. In this definition you include players like Fabregas, Gotze and Totti from that 2007 season where he played alone up top. You also include players like Robin van Persie when he first made the switch from support striker to central forward. In his first 7 games for Arsenal at that position he had 7 goals and 7 assists, if I remember correctly, and he basically played like a support striker. This was before he learned how to move like a CF, which he used to great effect the next two seasons. A player like Carlos Tevez would also fit this paradigm. Lionel Messi can also play this role, since he loves the ball to his feet, and he wants space to turn without someone marking him so he can face the game head on.
So in short, Lambert is a classic English number 9, in that he fits the targetman role as well as turning provider when his physical play wins him positions on the turn or half turn against CB's. Lambert's numbers emulate another very traditional number 9, Olivier Giroud, who is absolutely spectacular in the build-up, and also moves in the box so as to create shooting opportunities. No one in the world would call him a false 9 either, which isn't a an insult. Lambert is actually the best English forward at bringing others into the play since Heskey, who was excellent in this regard. He's a good signing for 'Pool, as he'll be like Andy Carroll except he can play with the ball at his feet.
For me a false 9 is a attacking player who prefers to face the CB's head on rather with his back toward goal. In this definition you include players like Fabregas, Gotze and Totti from that 2007 season where he played alone up top. You also include players like Robin van Persie when he first made the switch from support striker to central forward. In his first 7 games for Arsenal at that position he had 7 goals and 7 assists, if I remember correctly, and he basically played like a support striker. This was before he learned how to move like a CF, which he used to great effect the next two seasons. A player like Carlos Tevez would also fit this paradigm. Lionel Messi can also play this role, since he loves the ball to his feet, and he wants space to turn without someone marking him so he can face the game head on.
So in short, Lambert is a classic English number 9, in that he fits the targetman role as well as turning provider when his physical play wins him positions on the turn or half turn against CB's. Lambert's numbers emulate another very traditional number 9, Olivier Giroud, who is absolutely spectacular in the build-up, and also moves in the box so as to create shooting opportunities. No one in the world would call him a false 9 either, which isn't a an insult. Lambert is actually the best English forward at bringing others into the play since Heskey, who was excellent in this regard. He's a good signing for 'Pool, as he'll be like Andy Carroll except he can play with the ball at his feet.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 10:56 am to crazy4lsu
Well I guess I won't be convincing anyone here that he is the definition of a false 9, but it cannot be refuted that SOTON deployed him in that role. And I truly believe that his role at Liverpool will be very similar.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 10:59 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
He's a good signing for 'Pool, as he'll be like Andy Carroll
Never thought I would read those words in the same sentence.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 11:00 am to Meursault
Because he's not. It's such a rare position that you can actually name less than 10 players who've played this way since 2007, when Roma were the first team to seemingly do it with Totti. The way Lambert plays has been the way central forwards have played for a while now. Lambert might play off Sturridge if they are both on the field at the same time, but that won't make him a false 9 either.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 11:01 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
crazy4lsu
Excellent post. Saved me a response.
This post was edited on 8/1/14 at 11:09 am
Posted on 8/1/14 at 11:01 am to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
Never thought I would read those words in the same sentence.
Well Carroll is magnificent in the air. He might be one of the best headers of the ball I've seen. But he could never adapt to playing the game at his feet.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 11:03 am to crazy4lsu
The only false 9 players I can name are Cesc with Spain and Gotze with Germany, but I know very little about all of this tactical stuff compared to you guys. I always feel like the false 9 is facing towards the goal and they are in all likelihood attacking midfielders.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 11:05 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
Well Carroll is magnificent in the air. He might be one of the best headers of the ball I've seen. But he could never adapt to playing the game at his feet.
I know he has some excellent qualities, but it is always funny when a great post is made and you use guys who are known as laughingstocks (fair or not) as your examples of great abilities. I think it makes the post all the more impressive.
Best header of the ball for me is Tim Cahill.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 11:13 am to Vicks Kennel Club
There are very few players who can get by now without having to do anything but score goals. Even players like Chicharito are expected to hold up play at times. Carroll has shown no ability to adapt to any other part of the game.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 11:17 am to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
I always feel like the false 9 is facing towards the goal and they are in all likelihood attacking midfielders.
I would agree, but I also think you can use the Messi, Neymar, Mueller as examples too... neither are traditional #9s
Posted on 8/1/14 at 11:23 am to TFTC
quote:
Messi, Neymar, Mueller
What's interesting is how differently they play. Messi literally asks for the ball to his feet all the time, otherwise he isn't involved. Neymar is still an inverted winger for me, as I haven't seen him enough centrally to be an accurate judge. But I have a feeling that he would have been best deployed there for Brazil as Fred was legitimately awful. Mueller is always moving off the ball, running side to side, using horizontal movement, creating space for others and himself. His off the ball movement is amazing. Mueller is closer to a midfielder than Messi or Neymar, at the same time he has attributes of a wide forward in that he always looks to make off the ball runs and doesn't always seek the ball to his feet. He's such a great player.
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