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re: Would you support government or Christian’s in the United States?
Posted on 4/19/24 at 11:58 pm to Squirrelmeister
Posted on 4/19/24 at 11:58 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:If you want to talk, you can start by responding to what I'm saying to you first. You can't just dodge the conversation entirely and expect me to go off-topic for your own amusement.
Squirrelmeister
1
Posted on 4/20/24 at 12:18 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:
No, it says the government cannot infringe on that already-existent right.
It says both.
quote:
Where does it say that? Whip out your pocket constitution and quote the part to which you are referring.
Don't have one. you? It's in the Bill of Rights or the Constitution somewhere I'm sure I read it many of times. If you want to disprove me go ahead, I think your just trying to sound smart.
quote:
What about them?
If the government wants to kill Muslims, or Jews, or Christians, or orange people, or any group of people who are you to side with? I think the answer is clear. I'm just pointing out that the religious part of it goes out the window once the government wants to start killing any group of people. Or do you need faith in a higher power to know that is way beyond wrong? And something worth fighting for?
quote:
I feel like I’ve answered this already.
I feel like you're being obtuse, and/or very confused.
Posted on 4/20/24 at 6:52 am to FooManChoo
quote:
It's really not.
Yes, it is. The only thing holding you back is your knowledge that you'd never get what you really want.
quote:
Would you say it's wrong or immoral for the government to be influenced by any sort of religious belief or expression?
No. Religion has borrowed enough that it isn't completely backwards and wrong.
Posted on 4/20/24 at 6:54 am to FooManChoo
quote:
I want
I don't really care what you want.
You threw a fit because your "my god said" bullshite was repeatedly ignored. I don't care about that argument and I never will.
quote:
So now you've taken on omniscience as an attribute?
It's an analysis.
Posted on 4/20/24 at 8:05 am to WonTonDonWon
quote:
Don't have one. you? It's in the Bill of Rights or the Constitution somewhere I'm sure I read it many of times. If you want to disprove me go ahead, I think your just trying to sound smart.
I’m about to make some bacon and eggs and go work in my shop. I’ve got no time to search the entire constitution, though I do keep a pocket version in the console of my truck as a quick reference. I’m not falling for the “Burden of Proof” fallacy. Positive assertions require positive evidence. The one making the allegation - you - is the one required to provide the evidence backing your assertion. You provide the proof, and I’ll check it. If I’m wrong, I would have to then acknowledge that you were right.
quote:
Or do you need faith in a higher power to know that is way beyond wrong?
I’ve been on here for weeks or months attacking the moral monsters whose religion justifies the mass killings of people including babies. I am pro-life and reject moral authority from God because God does not exist. Morality is subjective but it is based on cultural norms and the golden rule. Would killing a shitload of people be fair to them? Would it result in positive wellbeing for them? No? Then killing them would be immoral. Simple.
Posted on 4/20/24 at 8:11 am to FooManChoo
quote:
If you want to talk, you can start by responding to what I'm saying to you first.
Let’s move past your circular fallacies. We aren’t going to agree.
I want to know if Noah was able to use the diplodocuses as a crane to move food and waste around kind of like Fred Flintstone. Let me know.
Posted on 4/20/24 at 8:53 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
I'm still a somewhat spiritual person, I just don't think it comes from the Christian god, or any others.
This raises some interesting context.
What do you mean by, "I'm still a somewhat spiritual person"?
"Spiritual" is defined as, Supernatural or meta-physical.
Isn't who "we" all are respectively about our "spirit"? (And doesn't that spirit merely dwell in our bio-shell aka the flesh/body?
Posted on 4/20/24 at 8:55 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:
I want to know if Noah was able to use the diplodocuses as a crane to move food and waste around kind of like Fred Flintstone. Let me know.
I want to know whether you relate more to Warner Bros, Loony Tunes cartoons or Hanna-Barbara?
Dude, you have got major OCD issues.
This post was edited on 4/20/24 at 8:57 am
Posted on 4/20/24 at 9:04 am to ThuperThumpin
quote:
quote:
God must exist in order for reality to be intelligible.
Thats an interesting statement...please elaborate. Believe it or not I enjoy these discussions with you even if we disagree.
God THE Creator is the architect of all matter, the metaphysical, order, and truth.
God = Truth = Intelligible = Understood with a clear mind
Satan = Lies = un-Intelligible = Deceived, chaotic, confusing mind
Posted on 4/20/24 at 9:27 am to Liberator
The Bible is the most cryptic 'Book' in the human historical record. Jesus openly stated and spoke in "parables" and profound and seemingly paradoxical and contrarian metaphors are scattered from Genesis to Revelation. And the motivation and manipulation of those who decided what words/ideas would be included, are questionable at the very least.
The simple essence of the Judeo-Christian Narrative is that the 'Energy Reservoir' that is the basis for all of 'perceived reality', is Self Aware. I.e., that such is a Spirit/God (the "I Am"), and that all that springs from that Source is therein Spiritual, and unified in said Spirituality. That is the most powerful and unifying idea that exists, in any manifest reality, for infinity. Unity being the ultimate and absolute manifestation of Love. Love is a 'feeling'. Remove that 'Ideal' and it's "wailing and gnashing of teeth', and the Fermi Paradox. "The fool thinketh in his heart that there is no God".
The Narrative further posits the idea that the "Children of God" have a choice as to what 'feeling' and the reality that is derived from their choice of said 'feeling'. I.e., "Heaven/Absolute Unity with God/Loving Creator Source, or Hell/Narcissistic Self Worship and ultimate and absolute aloneness. Knowing Truth and then refining one's character to create their 'Self' is the game. That is the essence of the Biblical Narrative and Human evolution, and all the shady and relatively meaningless 'details' wherein the basic Narrative is embedded, is just controversy flluff and drama. Much of it being the impetus of "Evil", which seeks revenge on God for being booted from the higher Spiritual Realm (Heaven), via corrupting God's Children. People can and will argue the 'details', but it's the basic Narrative/Idea that either is, or isn't.
"Every knee will bow". It's coming.
The simple essence of the Judeo-Christian Narrative is that the 'Energy Reservoir' that is the basis for all of 'perceived reality', is Self Aware. I.e., that such is a Spirit/God (the "I Am"), and that all that springs from that Source is therein Spiritual, and unified in said Spirituality. That is the most powerful and unifying idea that exists, in any manifest reality, for infinity. Unity being the ultimate and absolute manifestation of Love. Love is a 'feeling'. Remove that 'Ideal' and it's "wailing and gnashing of teeth', and the Fermi Paradox. "The fool thinketh in his heart that there is no God".
The Narrative further posits the idea that the "Children of God" have a choice as to what 'feeling' and the reality that is derived from their choice of said 'feeling'. I.e., "Heaven/Absolute Unity with God/Loving Creator Source, or Hell/Narcissistic Self Worship and ultimate and absolute aloneness. Knowing Truth and then refining one's character to create their 'Self' is the game. That is the essence of the Biblical Narrative and Human evolution, and all the shady and relatively meaningless 'details' wherein the basic Narrative is embedded, is just controversy flluff and drama. Much of it being the impetus of "Evil", which seeks revenge on God for being booted from the higher Spiritual Realm (Heaven), via corrupting God's Children. People can and will argue the 'details', but it's the basic Narrative/Idea that either is, or isn't.
"Every knee will bow". It's coming.
Posted on 4/20/24 at 9:27 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:
I’ve been on here for weeks or months attacking the moral monsters...and reject moral authority from God because God does not exist.
Really?? We hadn't noticed.
I would add that in my opinion that demon-possession is a very real phenomenon.
Q: What is a demon? It is the disembodied spirit seeking to invade a human host / body (they have NO soul, have no where to go). THEY ARE WILLING TO SHARE THE BODY while also speaking though it.
Satan / Lucifer ("The Angel of Light") reps and inverts ALL things truthful and good that only God Himself represents; Including especially THE Word of God -- The Holy Scriptures, inspired by the Holy Spirit of THE Almighty.
Luciferians and Illuminati ("The Enlightened") indeed believe God the Father is the Evil One because they claim God the Creator is usurping Lucifer's "rightful" Authority.
Luciferian anti-God, anti-Christ spirits also believe God the Creator has depriving mankind of the "knowledge" and "godhood" (The Serpent to Eve, Garden of Eden: "Take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” -- 3:22 NIV)
Posted on 4/20/24 at 9:32 am to Snipe
I honestly don’t understand your question. We currently have Christians and a government. There is no actual persecution of Christians in the U.S. Youre free to worship as you please as long as you don’t interfere with the rights of others.
Posted on 4/20/24 at 10:00 am to Liberator
quote:
I would add that in my opinion that demon-possession is a very real phenomenon.
Sure, Paul wrote all about the demons killing Jesus in Heaven (1 Corinthians 2) and some guy pretending to be Paul wrote all about how the struggle is not against people, but the demons who rule the world (Ephesians 6). Demons are precisely what caused sickness, too (Matthew 8:16).
quote:
Satan / Lucifer
Not even the same thing. Nor is the serpent in Genesis 3 either one of those if you go by the Bible instead of making shite up in your head.
quote:
(The Serpent to Eve, Garden of Eden: "Take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” -- 3:22 NIV)
Just when I think you can’t get any dumber. Maybe you should check again who is saying that and to whom it is being said.
I’ll help out though. It is “Yahweh Elohim” telling this to the other Elohim (you might want to check Deut 32:8-9, Psalms 82, 89, 97 for this concept). The implied concern is that now that the people had divine knowledge, that if they ate from the tree of life they would also become immortal, like the gods, who were basically just people with super powers (remember man was created in their image).
It’s so funny. In Genesis the concern is that the gods do not want people to live forever or become too godlike in their knowledge and abilities and invade heaven (see Tower of Babel fable). Then “God” does an about face in the New Testament and now wants people to live forever with him in heaven.
Posted on 4/20/24 at 10:05 am to RCDfan1950
quote:
The Bible is the most cryptic 'Book' in the human historical record.
I don't believe this is the case my friend for most True Believers (for the Lukewarm and Disbelievers, definitely the case).
To those in whom the Holy Spirit dwells, we understand it well. Yes, there remain some "Mysteries".
quote:.
Jesus openly stated and spoke in "parables" and profound and seemingly paradoxical and contrarian metaphors are scattered from Genesis to Revelation. And the motivation and manipulation of those who decided what words/ideas would be included, are questionable at the very least
Disagree respectfully that this is a consensus opinion. The Lord's Will and Meaning of His message, His Holy Book for His Children can NOT be changed nor manipulated by Man.
quote:
The simple essence of the Judeo-Christian Narrative is that the 'Energy Reservoir' that is the basis for all of 'perceived reality', is Self Aware. I.e., that such is a Spirit/God (the "I Am"), and that all that springs from that Source is therein Spiritual, and unified in said Spirituality. That is the most powerful and unifying idea that exists, in any manifest reality, for infinity.
Unity being the ultimate and absolute manifestation of Love. Love is a 'feeling'. Remove that 'Ideal' and it's "wailing and gnashing of teeth', and the Fermi Paradox. "The fool thinketh in his heart that there is no God".
Despite some reservations, much of your post rings true.
Judeo-Christian Narrative (of "Energy") a "Perceived reality"?? Isn't this an actual reality and physical realm in which we dwell?
Only the disbelievers, the deceived, Luciferians and skeptics disbelieve God, His Creation, His Justice -- instead alternatively believing in the Fermi Paradox; Unfortunately and sadly, they also recklessly dismiss the inevitable and Forever Death Penalty for unrepentant, un-washed sin ("The gnashing of teeth").
"Love". Isn't more than a mere feeling? Yes, "unity", a "connection". But in the spiritual sense WITH God, it is a marriage, a bond, a commitment here in this realm, in the Flesh that finds ultimate fruition with Him in His Kingdom, our Eternal Home -- wearing our new glorious bodies.
quote:
The Narrative further posits the idea that the "Children of God" have a choice as to what 'feeling' and the reality that is derived from their choice of said 'feeling'. I.e., "Heaven/Absolute Unity with God/Loving Creator Source, or Hell/Narcissistic Self Worship and ultimate and absolute aloneness.
God chooses us. By Divine Fiat. We don't "choose" Him (contrary to The Narrative or belief). However we certainly have Free Will in choosing to reach back out to God/Jesus Christ (or harden our heart, blocking Him via your aforementioned spiritual "Narcissism").
quote:
Knowing Truth and then refining one's character to create their 'Self' is the game. That is the essence of the Biblical Narrative and Human evolution, and all the shady and relatively meaningless 'details' wherein the basic Narrative is embedded, is just controversy flluff and drama. Much of it being the impetus of "Evil", which seeks revenge on God for being booted from the higher Spiritual Realm (Heaven), via corrupting God's Children. People can and will argue the 'details', but it's the basic Narrative/Idea that either is, or isn't.
Well, you sure nailed the MO of The Evil One and the motivation he inspires in promoting his alt-Creation (Evolution) for Disbelievers and those hostile to the authority and truth of God The Father.
I believe we can fall into the trap of over-thinking what it means to be a "Christian". I also believe we can't allow psychologists, psychiatrists, and "religious scholars" to define Christianity and the tenets of the abiding in the Gospel of Jesus Christ (which all that matters) as a mere "narrative".
quote:
"Every knee will bow". It's coming.
Amen!
Posted on 4/20/24 at 10:19 am to Liberator
quote:
This raises some interesting context.
What do you mean by, "I'm still a somewhat spiritual person"?
"Spiritual" is defined as, Supernatural or meta-physical.
Isn't who "we" all are respectively about our "spirit"? (And doesn't that spirit merely dwell in our bio-shell aka the flesh/body?
Spirituality exists independent of any deity.
Posted on 4/20/24 at 10:40 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:
Sure, Paul wrote all about the demons killing Jesus in Heaven (1 Corinthians 2)
An absolute lie. You are truly deceived and tragically, Biblically illiterate. All you have are Pseudepigraphic and Jewish mysticism along with lying Demonic whispers and its power of suggestion.
quote:
some guy pretending to be Paul wrote
I'm supposed to take your musings seriously? Stop it.
quote:
It’s so funny.
In Genesis the concern is that the gods do not want people to live forever or become too godlike in their knowledge and abilities and invade heaven (see Tower of Babel fable).
What really "funny" (or rather tragic) -- you have ZERO ability to understand, comprehend ANY Scripture. AT ALL. It's actually not at all surprising for good reason.
GOD EXPLAINS :
quote:
2 Corinthians 4:4
...whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
Isaiah 44:18
They do not know, nor do they understand, for He has smeared over their eyes so that they cannot see and their hearts so that they cannot comprehend.
John 1:5
The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
Ephesians 4:18
They are darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts.
1 Corinthians 2:14
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
It matters not what you think you believe about the Hereafter; Our Spirit will indeed live Forever in one place or the other. At the very milli-second of expiration of our body, we (our eternal spirit) shall rise from the grave, pass on beyond this mortal realm -- and immediately shall awaken. TO WHAT?
We shall all awaken in the awesome (an awful reality for many) presence and mighty White Throne of The Almighty, surrounded by the Saints and Elders.
Choose wisely my friend. You can still turn this inverted thing around. (While you still breathe).
Posted on 4/20/24 at 10:41 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Spirituality exists independent of any deity.
From whence and where does "spirituality" spring forth?
And can you define your "spirit"?
Posted on 4/20/24 at 11:44 am to Liberator
I essentially agree with everything you posted, Lib. It is the inability our/the 'words' which we employ to describe abstract (think Spiritual) realities. Today's Quantum Science knocks on the door of the 'Physical' truly being 'Metaphysical' as the basis of perception (of the Empirical Universe/Worldly Realm) for all that is perceived. I snicker when they start imagining and suspecting a 'Simulation' (implication being that there is a 'Simulator' ), but they would never call that God, given the obvious baggage that comes with that label.
I certainly agree that minus the visionary Power of the Holy Spirit, lent by Jesus's authority as Saviour and upon our all-in commitment to serve Truth and Love, that a person can and will not see Spiritual Truths. It's like William James posited in his brilliant treatise "The Will to Believe"; there are some things that will never be minus Belief, first. "He that seeks to know God, must FIRST BELIEVE that God exists". No belief, no God. At least in the physical realm. Every knee bows once we leave this realm.
We could refine words to more succinctly elucidate the ideas and 'laws' which govern our existence, forever. That we may KNOW the Truth, and truly be free. One of my favorite life follies.
Love you my Brother.
), but they would never call that God, given the obvious baggage that comes with that label. I certainly agree that minus the visionary Power of the Holy Spirit, lent by Jesus's authority as Saviour and upon our all-in commitment to serve Truth and Love, that a person can and will not see Spiritual Truths. It's like William James posited in his brilliant treatise "The Will to Believe"; there are some things that will never be minus Belief, first. "He that seeks to know God, must FIRST BELIEVE that God exists". No belief, no God. At least in the physical realm. Every knee bows once we leave this realm.
We could refine words to more succinctly elucidate the ideas and 'laws' which govern our existence, forever. That we may KNOW the Truth, and truly be free. One of my favorite life follies.
Love you my Brother.
Posted on 4/20/24 at 11:52 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Spirituality exists independent of any deity.
Spirituality, IS, THE, Deity, DB. Good Book says as much: "God is a Spirit..." and in the 'latter days', them that worship God "will worship in spirit and truth"., God being the sum total or the Whole.
It's hard for me to imagine somebody not seeing this. I guess I've drank the whole pitcher of kool aid. Gladly so.
Posted on 4/20/24 at 12:10 pm to Liberator
quote:
Biblically illiterate
Look in the mirror. You reject what the Bible literally states.
Who killed Jesus?
quote:
8None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Where did the rulers exist?
quote:
12For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
You presuppose univocally. Then you pick and choose passages you like that override the ones you don’t like. You don’t believe in the Bible, but rather the cherry picked parts that conform to your existing delusions.
quote:quote:I'm supposed to take your musings seriously? Stop it.
some guy pretending to be Paul wrote
The overwhelming majority of biblical scholars call Ephesians a “Deutero-Pauline” writing and also use the term “Pseudepigrapha”. It means Paul didn’t write it.
quote:
What really "funny" (or rather tragic) -- you have ZERO ability to understand, comprehend ANY Scripture.
Projection. You reject what it literally says - that Yahweh Elohim is doing the talking using “us” pronouns. You insert the serpent where it isn’t there in the text. Then you quote a bunch of scriptures that don’t support your removal of Yahweh Elohim with replacement by the serpent.
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