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Message

re: Women should not have the right to vote

Posted on 10/15/17 at 12:44 pm to
Posted by bonhoeffer45
Member since Jul 2016
4367 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 12:44 pm to
quote:

Thanks for providing more ammunition to the argument that democracy blows and is a terrible system of governance


“The worst form of government, except for all the other forms tried from time to time.”
Posted by HempHead
Big Sky Country
Member since Mar 2011
56749 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 12:45 pm to
Yeah, I'm not beholden to Churchill's opinion.
Posted by bonhoeffer45
Member since Jul 2016
4367 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 12:48 pm to
quote:


Yeah, I'm not beholden to Churchill's opinion


No one said you have to be, but you might enlighten people by letting them know what supposedly is superior to representative democracy?
Posted by HempHead
Big Sky Country
Member since Mar 2011
56749 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 12:53 pm to
I, of course, support private/polycentric law as an ideal - but that's not something one can institute easily, and certainly not overnight.

Barring the existence of my AnCap island with McNukes and child slaves, I'd prefer an aristocratic/republican or even a legitimate monarchy over the existence of such a government that we have now. Lichtenstein, for example, is probably the best model that exists today.

I know the reponse will be, "but you can't run a country as large and diverse as America like that!", to which I would say, "that's exactly the point."
Posted by Zach
Gizmonic Institute
Member since May 2005
117964 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 12:57 pm to
quote:

No one said you have to be, but you might enlighten people by letting them know what supposedly is superior to representative democracy?


The question before the board here is not representative democracy. It's the franchise to vote. If you are in the 'more the better' category then we should allow elementary school children to vote. Same with mentally retarded adults. Should prisoners vote? What about Europeans living in Europe? How about higher level sentient animals like dogs?


Posted by bonhoeffer45
Member since Jul 2016
4367 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 12:59 pm to
So you want a system that can’t conceivably function, essentially triggering an anarchic state through dysfunction, interesting. Crazy, but interesting.
Posted by el Gaucho
He/They
Member since Dec 2010
59832 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 1:04 pm to
But muh roads
Posted by HempHead
Big Sky Country
Member since Mar 2011
56749 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 1:04 pm to
quote:

So you want a system that can’t conceivably function, essentially triggering an anarchic state through dysfunction, interesting. Crazy, but interesting.


I wholeheartedly believe that nation-states will collapse in the next few decades and that much smaller polities will form. Hopefully, many different types of governing systems (ones that I'm not even aware of) arise and we can see a lot more variety and choice in how we are governed.
Posted by bonhoeffer45
Member since Jul 2016
4367 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 1:10 pm to
quote:


The question before the board here is not representative democracy. It's the franchise to vote. If you are in the 'more the better' category then we should allow elementary school children to vote. Same with mentally retarded adults. Should prisoners vote? What about Europeans living in Europe? How about higher level sentient animals like dogs

What a bizzare straw man to prop up.

The question at the center here is woman’s suffrage, and Trump supporters who claim woman aren’t emotionally capable of handling the responsibility without a sense of self-awareness or irony.
Posted by Pinecone Repair
Gulf Shores
Member since Nov 2013
7239 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 1:24 pm to
quote:

The question at the center here is woman’s suffrage, and Trump supporters who claim woman aren’t emotionally capable of handling the responsibility without a sense of self-awareness or irony.


Most women are capable they just aren't interested. They are watching the Bachelor or whining on Tumblr.
As a woman I feel qualified to tell you thaf most women aren't politically aware. It's been true with nearly every woman I've known (on a level few men here could). Very few can hold actual discussions surrounding ideology and the impact on public policy. Try it. Listen for the empty platitudes and tired talking points.
Women understand money. Frame arguments around how they will be impacted. Their interest increases and their "compassion" gives way to reality.
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 1:26 pm to
quote:

Women understand money. Frame arguments around how they will be impacted. Their interest increases and their "compassion" gives way to reality.
Substitue money for security and you'll understand why women vote for larger government.
Posted by Pinecone Repair
Gulf Shores
Member since Nov 2013
7239 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 1:28 pm to
quote:

Substitue money for security and you'll understand why women vote for larger government.


Right. The "strong independent women" who traded marital security for big daddy gov.
Posted by Zach
Gizmonic Institute
Member since May 2005
117964 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 1:29 pm to
Me:
quote:

It's the franchise to vote.


You:
quote:

The question at the center here is woman’s suffrage,


Uh, those two things are the same. Now that we've established that you're a moron let's examine WHY women should vote and not other beings like:

17 year olds
Prisoners
Europeans
Dogs

Give me a cogent reason why women are more deserving than the above.
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 1:35 pm to
quote:

Right. The "strong independent women" who traded marital security for big daddy gov.
Exactly, since we began allowing women's suffrage we've seen a War on Poverty, War on Drugs and the creation of massive entitlement programs, many of which were specifically designed to protect of support single mothers who left their husbands.
Posted by bonhoeffer45
Member since Jul 2016
4367 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 1:37 pm to
quote:

They are watching the Bachelor or whining on Tumblr.
As a woman I feel qualified to tell you thaf most women aren't politically aware.


As a man I feel qualified to tell you most men aren't politically aware or interested either. Its been true for almost every man I have met, save a few. Most I talk to or see posting on message boards can't hold discussions beyond repeating talking points and regurgitating what they heard from their thought generators of their preferred partisan media.

Truth be told, if you are ever interested in more than just anecdotal evidence, you should look into the work of George Lakoff and Achen/Bartels. The later have done a lot of interesting empirical work about how people make voting decisions. And their findings show that issues of irrational voting patterns, tribalism, indirect influences, and ignorance of policy are something that is not unique to one sex.




Posted by Zach
Gizmonic Institute
Member since May 2005
117964 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 1:40 pm to
quote:

you should look into the work of George Lakoff and Achen/Bartels.


Lakoff (rhymes with...) is a left wing shill.
This post was edited on 10/15/17 at 1:42 pm
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 1:41 pm to
quote:

As a man I feel qualified to tell you most men aren't politically aware or interested either. Its been true for almost every man I have met, save a few. Most I talk to or see posting on message boards can't hold discussions beyond repeating talking points and regurgitating what they heard from their thought generators of their preferred partisan media.
Being politically aware is really irrelevant to the discussion. The point is that women will naturally vote for policies that make government larger while men will naturally vote for the opposite. Generally speaking of course. Since I hate government and want as little of it as possible I don't want women voting. It is literally impossible for government to get smaller or even stop growing as long as women vote.
Posted by bonhoeffer45
Member since Jul 2016
4367 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 1:44 pm to
quote:


Uh, those two things are the same. Now that we've established that you're a moron let's examine WHY women should vote and not other beings like:


Who said they were different? You threw in a straw man in a thread about taking woman's right to vote away from them. So make the case Zach. I'm more than ok with the current arrangement, you seem upset by it. The onus is on you to make the case for reversing the law.
Posted by Pinecone Repair
Gulf Shores
Member since Nov 2013
7239 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 1:50 pm to
quote:

As a man I feel qualified to tell you most men aren't politically aware or interested either. Its been true for almost every man I have met, save a few. Most I talk to or see posting on message boards can't hold discussions beyond repeating talking points and regurgitating what they heard from their thought generators of their preferred partisan media.


This just isn't true, but we're talking about women.

quote:

not unique to one sex


But we're talking about women. Start a thread about men if you'd like.
I'd love to see some sort of aptitude test that would eliminate idiot voters regardless of their gender.
Posted by bonhoeffer45
Member since Jul 2016
4367 posts
Posted on 10/15/17 at 1:52 pm to
quote:

Being politically aware is really irrelevant to the discussion. The point is that women will naturally vote for policies that make government larger while men will naturally vote for the opposite. Generally speaking of course. Since I hate government and want as little of it as possible I don't want women voting.


Setting aside the empirical evidence, or lack thereof for that simple narrative, the question is, is your desire to have a smaller government mean a willingness to oppress voting blocs simply because they don't adhere to your political ideology?

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