re: Women in Combat Arms: The Master Thread

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We all know that deployed commanders will universally tell us that problems arising from the troops having sex with each other in theater is often the most troublesome problem commanders face out there.

But the argument won't be won just by telling war stories about how fricked up things got on one deployment or another.

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This is all too true. Politicians on the left will disregard anything that gets in the way of the narrative they want to push for their special interest groups. Politicians on the right are almost unanimously disinterested or unable to argue through applying real data because for many the supervision of DoD and the military is something they give lip service to.

Did anyone from LA's congressional delegation say a single word about women in combat units or transsexuals being encouraged to join? No.

The LA delegation did have some members speak out loudly about those Natl Guardsmen whose families wanted them buried at Arlington.

Interesting allocation of political capital; speak out to ensure some can be buried at Arlington, hold your tongue about an issue that likely will get more buried at Arlington.

add jbird to the roster and remove my name, goober.

Interesting recent article on the subject

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Capt. Kristen Griest of Orange, Connecticut (L) and 1st Lt. Shaye Haver of Copperas Cove, Texas made history on Friday as they became the first females to graduate from the Army’s elite and grueling 62-day Ranger school, at Fort Benning, Georgia. The Army’s new chief of staff, Gen. Mark Milley is considering if he should recommend to Defense Secretary Ash Carter that some combat roles remain restricted to men only. Photo by Tami Chappell/Reuters

FORT BENNING, Georgia — The Army’s new chief of staff, Gen. Mark Milley, is taking a calculated approach to arguably the most consequential decision of his early tenure – whether to recommend that any all-male combat roles remain closed to women.

Central to his thinking, he said in an Associated Press interview Friday, is the question of whether allowing women to serve in the infantry, armor and other traditionally male-only fields would affect Army “readiness” for war.

“Does it improve it, or does it hurt it?” he is asking as he and leaders of the other military services weigh whether to recommend to Defense Secretary Ash Carter that he keep some positions off-limits to women. Under a January 2013 edict, all remaining all-male positions will be opened to women unless the defense secretary approves exceptions by January 2016. Carter said on Thursday that he expects to see the services’ recommendations by October.

Milley, who took over as Army chief on Aug. 14 and has seen women in combat during his numerous tours as a commander in Iraq and Afghanistan, said he is not ready to say which direction he is leaning.

“Right now I would call myself right on the line,” he said in the interview while flying to Fort Benning to attend an Army Ranger School graduation that included the first women ever to pass the rigorous Ranger training course. After the ceremony he briefly met privately with the two trailblazers, Capt. Kristen Griest, 26, and 1st Lt. Shaye Haver, 25.

Milley said that in coming weeks he will weigh a wide range of information, including Army assessments of the experience of Israel and other countries with women in combat, as well as studies by the Marine Corps, data collected during Army experiments and judgments reached by his own experience in war.

“Whatever decision is made is going to have some pretty far-reaching impact,” he said. “So it’s a big deal, and I want to make sure I’m thinking it through.”

Women have been steadily moving into previously all-male jobs across the military, including as members of the Army’s 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, best known as the helicopter crews that flew Navy SEALs into Osama bin Laden’s compound. Women are also now serving on Navy submarines and in some Army artillery jobs.

Officials familiar with the discussions about possibly ending limits on women serving in combat said they believe the Army will allow women to seek infantry and armor jobs. Milley’s predecessor as chief of staff, Gen. Ray Odierno, has hinted at that conclusion.

“In order to best manage your talent, you have to pick the best people who can perform to the standards that we have established,” Odierno said earlier this month. “If you can meet the standards that we’ve established, then you should be able to perform in that (position). And I think that’s where we’re headed.”

LINK

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I would be very interested to know what you gentlemen in this thread think of: Mabus and Defense Secretary Leon Panetta-- being replaced by a new POTUS soon? Can the replacements really undo the opened can of worms; regarding women in combat roles and transexuals serving?

In ya'll's opinions, can you unring the bell at all?

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I would be very interested to know what you gentlemen in this thread think of: Mabus and Defense Secretary Leon Panetta-- being replaced by a new POTUS soon? Can the replacements really undo the opened can of worms; regarding women in combat roles and transexuals serving? In ya'll's opinions, can you unring the bell at all?

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More importantly will Trump want to unring that bell?

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I think the only thing (unfortunately) they can do is enforce the demanding standards that are already in place.

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There's no real reason they can't reverse the decision with the stroke of a pen. It's hardly even been implemented. There aren't thousands of women serving in these roles yet.

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IMO, DJT would have to do it by executive order. There is not the political will in the U.S. Congress to implement a legislative change.

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There wasn't a legislative change to allow women into combat roles in the first place. It was simply a decision made by SECDEF. To my knowledge congress was never even in the loop and certainly had no say on the matter.

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To my knowledge congress was never even in the loop and certainly had no say on the matter.

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False. They had multiple budget opportunities (through continuing resolutions) to force a change.

The point being that congress didn't have to say yes to thr decision, and they won'r have to say yes to a reversal. They continue to play dumb and not do their jobs. Trump or the new SECDEF can simply say, no more women in combat roles, and that's that.

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I doubt it, but I'm hoping he picks a secdef that does and won't push back if he wants to reverse the decision.

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I can't see them expending the political capital and the media backlash would be insane. I am guessing they will at most tell the services that minimum standards should not be lowered or altered to attain a certain outcome.

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Which standards would he/she test under?

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Ideally, there wouldn't be a "which standards."