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Message
re: Without God, are all men truly equal?
Posted on 6/26/17 at 12:09 pm to Bass Tiger
Posted on 6/26/17 at 12:09 pm to Bass Tiger
quote:That's exactly right. I asked previously if people killing in the name of science makes science evil or if killing in the name of the environment makes the environment evil, with the obvious answer being "no", however he can't seem to get past the cherry-picked examples of people contradicting the Christian faith to use as a bludgeon to condemn the whole religion. He's a living example of Jesus' teaching that Christians will be hated because Jesus was/is hated. This guy is always looking for an excuse to validate his own hatred for Christianity.
Not sure where MastrShake got sideways with God but it seems he had a life experience that turned him away from the Lord.
When you attempt to claim that Hitler was a Christian by citing some of Hitler's references to himself being a Christian during some speeches does not work. You have to look at a man's actions and deeds to know if they're living a Christian life, Hitler's life was not a testament to living the Christian faith.
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Posted on 6/26/17 at 12:10 pm to FooManChoo
quote:so nothing is selfish unless you decide it is? thats your call, right? thats up to you. your belief system is the only one that matters? you have the right to push your personal beliefs on people, simply because you've decided thats what youre gonna do.
Secondly, even if help comes with the gospel message, it is still not selfish. Those who believe that Christianity is the only way to salvation share that message out of love and a desire to see others saved, as well.
why cant you just leave people alone? why cant you just shut up? why do you have to push your delusional bullshite on people when they're at their lowest point?
do you have any decency in you whatsoever?
Posted on 6/26/17 at 12:42 pm to MastrShake
quote:Selfishness is based on motive. If a person believes someone else is in trouble and does what they can to help them because they don't want to see that person suffer, then that motivation is selfless, not selfish. The definition has not changed, just your understanding of motive.
so nothing is selfish unless you decide it is? thats your call, right? thats up to you.
A Christian has a worldview that includes a spiritual aspect. The Christian believes that there is more to this world than the here and now and our physical bodies, and that we have a soul or spiritual composition in addition to our physical bodies that will exist after our body dies. The Christian believes in a spiritual world and state where the soul/spirit goes once the physical body dies. One place a soul/spirit can go is to Hell, where there is suffering for eternity. To a Christian, this is a terrible place to be and a fate worse than physical death, and so the Christian does not desire to go there and they do not desire ANYONE to go there (they shouldn't, at least). Therefore, the Christian wants to prevent people from going there by preaching the message that they believe will save a person from that fate if it is accepted.
Whether you believe there is an afterlife or suffering after death is irrelevant. If the Christian believes it and they are trying to prevent people from suffering, then to them such an act is loving and merciful; it's selfless, not selfish, since the Christian already believes they are saved from that terrible fate and now wants others to be saved.
quote:Christians believe that our belief system is the only one that is true in terms of God, our relationship to Him, and the existence and state of the soul after death. In that regard, yes, we believe that our belief system is the only one that matters and if what we beleive is true, it is the only one that should matter because we're talking about perceived spiritual truth, not preference.
your belief system is the only one that matters?
quote:Well, we share our personal beliefs with people because we believe we are right. Obviously you believe you are right and we are wrong, which is why you feel the need to push back. If there is no truth or if there is truth and no one can know it, why would you care if we "push" what we believe on others? It doesn't matter one way or the other in your worldview. But, you feel compelled to fight against it, which means that you believe you are right and we are wrong. Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.
you have the right to push your personal beliefs on people, simply because you've decided thats what youre gonna do.
quote:For one, because we're commanded to by God. For another, because we believe that our faith is true and that it has real consequences for people and because of those consequences, it is cruel to "shut up" and let people go on their merry way to Hell. If you were about to eat a poisoned sandwich and I knew about it, would you prefer that I told you or I minded my own business and let you eat it? Now let's say that I believed that your sandwich was poisoned but didn't know for certain: would I be loving or hateful to warn you about your possibly-poisoned sandwich and give you an opportunity to accept or reject that message?
why cant you just leave people alone? why cant you just shut up?
quote:It's not delusional, but even if it were, we believe it is true and good to warn people about what we believe is a fate that no one would desire. If we believe it, we should be telling everyone regardless of whether they are at a low point, a high point, or somewhere in between. Focusing on those at their low point seems more practical and loving, though, since it is those people who need hope the most and we believe we have a message of hope for them.
why do you have to push your delusional bull shite on people when they're at their lowest point?
quote:Yes, which is why I and other Christians preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.
do you have any decency in you whatsoever?
In case you haven't heard it in a while, here it is:
All mankind has sinned against God, a perfectly Holy being, and even a single sin is an infinite offense against Him and deserves an infinite punishment. All people sin and therefore all people deserve that punishment. Jesus was God that came to earth as a man to fulfill the law perfectly so that He could become an acceptable substitute for God's wrath so that sinners like you and me could have the punishment that we deserve taken from us. If we believe that Jesus paid that price on our behalf, we will gain access to Heaven to be with God forever in peace and paradise. If we do not believe that Jesus paid that price, then the price is still owed by us and we will perish in our sins in Hell for eternity. Repent of your sins and believe in Jesus Christ, the only savior for sin and the only one who can reconcile us with God the Father, whom our sin has separated us form.
Posted on 6/26/17 at 12:45 pm to MastrShake
quote:
because im an atheist and there are lots of very good reasons to believe that all races are equal. it doesn't mean the races are identical, they are physically different in many ways, but they all have equal ability to contribute and make the world a better place.
It wouldnt work that way. All people would build the world to benefit them, and your world wouldnt benefit me and probably vice versa. Without Gods law of treat others as you would have them treat you, no one would care about anyone else but there immediate family and friends IMO
Posted on 6/26/17 at 12:47 pm to Bass Tiger
With God, men aren't equal.
Posted on 6/26/17 at 12:47 pm to PaperTiger
quote:
Gods law of treat others as you would have them treat you
Nope.
Posted on 6/26/17 at 12:49 pm to Bass Tiger
yes, all men are truly equal under the eyes of the law
whether god, allah or the flying spaghetti monster exist or not
whether god, allah or the flying spaghetti monster exist or not
Posted on 6/26/17 at 12:52 pm to Machine
quote:Only if the law and its application allow for it.
yes, all men are truly equal under the eyes of the law
whether god, allah or the flying spaghetti monster exist or not
Within the atheistic worldview, there is no basis for equality of mankind. It's only an arbitrary preference that certain people may have.
Posted on 6/26/17 at 12:54 pm to FooManChoo
quote:well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man
Within the atheistic worldview, there is no basis for equality of mankind. It's only an arbitrary preference that certain people may have.
not everybody requires god to gain empathy
This post was edited on 6/26/17 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:01 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Within the atheistic worldview, there is no basis for equality of mankind.
Still wrong.
Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:04 pm to Bass Tiger
Even with him they wouldnt be. All men are not equal. The saying is all men are created equal. After that they separate themselves. However, i dont think this is true in most senses of the word "equal". I think what the founding fathers were trying to convey is that we as americans should all have identical rights as guaranteed by the constitution.
Not that everyone is a good/useful as the next fella.
Not that everyone is a good/useful as the next fella.
Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:19 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
Message Without God, are all men truly equal? by Antonio Moss With God, men aren't equal.
Expand on your belief that God makes man unequal, I can see how nature has not a care about men/races being equal but God's word said that all men were/are created in his image.
My belief is that man, created in God's image, makes all men equal. If God is nonexistent then man can defer to nature and decide some men/races are superior to others and could make a valid argument using natures laws and science to prove such claims.
I mentioned selective breeding in an earlier post and how man has taken the wolf and created hundreds of breeds. All the same species but certainly not equal in size, speed, strength, intelligence, etc. Absolutely unequal.
Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:39 pm to Machine
quote:I didn't say that you had to be a Christian to have empathy. I'm saying that atheists have no reason to call empathy "good", much less try to impose that on others or condemn others for not having it. It's nothing more than an individual preference in that worldview and any person can have it or not have it and both are equally fine.
not everybody requires god to gain empathy
Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:43 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I'm saying that atheists have no reason to call empathy "good", much less try to impose that on others or condemn others for not having it.
This is still completely wrong, no matter how many times you repeat it.
quote:
It's nothing more than an individual preference in that worldview and any person can have it or not have it and both are equally fine.
Also incorrect.
Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:44 pm to Bass Tiger
They are all "created equal."
Posted on 6/26/17 at 1:45 pm to Bass Tiger
(no message)
This post was edited on 6/29/17 at 3:38 pm
Posted on 6/26/17 at 2:08 pm to MastrShake
quote:
why cant you just leave people alone? why cant you just shut up? why do you have to push your delusional bullshite on people when they're at their lowest point?
I get what you're saying (though I don't think that was Foo's intent).
We each find God on our own. As much as some churches push evangelizing, I believe God reveals himself to us, not the other way around. And we certainly don't always experience God by reading or hearing someone else's account of who or what God is. I have a close relationship with God, but it's taken me years (and some rotten and painful life lessons) to finally trust and believe in His grace.
Your experience is, sadly, not uncommon in the church; we need to do something about it.
If you ever want to shoot the bull about it, I'm game.
Posted on 6/26/17 at 2:11 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I'm saying that atheists have no reason to call empathy "good", much less try to impose that on others or condemn others for not having it. It's nothing more than an individual preference in that worldview and any person can have it or not have it and both are equally fine.
Atheists and non-Atheists arrived at what is "good" in EXACTLY the same fashion.
It's just that the non-Atheists declared that what they arrived at came from a super being.
Posted on 6/26/17 at 2:13 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Atheists and non-Atheists arrived at what is "good" in EXACTLY the same fashion.
Probs not.
Posted on 6/26/17 at 2:13 pm to the808bass
quote:
Probs not.
Yep.
Both arrived at the conclusion using human reason.
Then, one group declared their reason had a superior source.
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