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re: Why in the world is the House openly taking a side in a foreign war?
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:02 am to Bunk Moreland
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:02 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:
That was a color revolution.
Naw they were real and we seized on that to get our guy in power. Russia invading and staling Crimea didn't help, either.
We waited for our shot after 2010 and when Russia showed its true colors and caused mass unrest, we seized on that opening.
0
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:02 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
It's not democracy. It's trade.
This is about the EU and Russia's multi-decade quest to prevent Ukraine from joining the EU.
That would be the nail in the coffin for Russia.
I think it's more about NATO than the EU, but I'm interested to hear more about your perspective. I tend to think mainly from a military point of view.
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:03 am to Wildcat1996
quote:
What changed?
The whores are calling the shots.
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:04 am to Wildcat1996
Perhaps for the same reason they have in every foreign war since our nation was founded.
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:06 am to Wildcat1996
...aaaaaand this aged terribly.
This post was edited on 12/22/22 at 9:07 am
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:06 am to Wildcat1996
quote:
Why in the world is the House openly taking a side in a foreign war?
Because the United States is an empire and the world's police, as it makes the political class and their allies a ton of money.
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:08 am to Wildcat1996
quote:
Why are GOP House members cheering like school girls at a pep rally?
I think a certain percentage of them, the ones that are not career politicians with lots of chips in the game, are getting strong-armed, more-so if there are game-changing funding strings attached to their districts.
They are cheering, but they don't like it.
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:09 am to Sam Quint
quote:
I think it's more about NATO than the EU,
No that's just a talking point Russia created
Ukraine really didn't change much for Russia. NATO has been on its border for a while and we aren't invading Russia via conventional war, regardless.
quote:
but I'm interested to hear more about your perspective. I tend to think mainly from a military point of view.
Reuters article from 2013
quote:
“Forget about it ... forever!” he shouted at them, according to people who attended the meeting. Instead the president argued for an agreement to deepen trade and other cooperation with the European Union.
Some deputies implored him to change his mind, people who attended the meeting told Reuters. Businessmen warned that a deal with the EU would provoke Russia - Ukraine’s former master in Soviet times - into toughening an economic blockade on Ukrainian goods. Yanukovich stood firm.
“We will pursue integration with Europe,” he barked back, according to three people who attended the meeting. He seemed dead set on looking west.
Less than three months later Yanukovich spurned the EU, embraced Russian President Vladimir Putin and struck a deal on December 17 for a bailout of his country. Russia will invest $15 billion in Ukraine’s government debt and reduce by about a third the price that Naftogaz, Ukraine’s national energy company, pays for Russian gas.
It is not clear what Yanukovich agreed to give Russia in return, but two sources close to him said he may have had to surrender some control over Ukraine’s gas pipeline network.
Russia's puppet was installed in 2010 specifically to accomplish this goal. They delayed the EU integration and then at the ultimate deadline, pulled the rug out and immediately secured a complicated deal with Russia overnight.
Russia losing Ukraine from its sphere of influence to strengthen the EU would destroy everything.
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:10 am to SCLibertarian
quote:
Why in the world is the House openly taking a side in a foreign war?
serious question for those who are old enough to remember...were our politicians openly celebrating Afghanistan in the 80s like they are the Ukraine now? I was only a kid, but it seems like from every book I've read on the topic that we were pretty openly siding with Afghanistan.
While I dont agree with this particular cause, I dont think this is anything new really.
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:11 am to SlowFlowPro
interesting. I need to learn more about that. Thanks
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:12 am to Sam Quint
quote:
I was only a kid, but it seems like from every book I've read on the topic that we were pretty openly siding with Afghanistan.
And then convinced our idiot populace to do the exact same thing the Soviets did, only we were there longer.
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:13 am to AggieHank86
quote:
quote:It seems possible that someone in Congress might think that containing Russian aggression is in the best interest of the United States.
If the DC ruling class/LWO truly believed this^^^ they would have worked tirelessly to keep Trump in office and to expose Bumbling Biden......but they did not.
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:15 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:
We are walking right up to the line of openly declaring war on Russia.
No, we aren’t. We’re stupid for dumping money into it, but the histrionics over clapping at a speech are getting absurd.
This post was edited on 12/22/22 at 9:16 am
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:18 am to Indefatigable
quote:
No, we aren’t. We’re stupid for dumping money into it, but the histrionics over clapping at a speech are getting absurd.
Let's hope and pray you're right.
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:18 am to Wildcat1996
to keep cheap oil going to china.
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:20 am to Bass Tiger
quote:
Let's hope and pray you're right.
pretty sure the HIMARS and 777s we have been dumping into Ukraine are far more provocative than holding a flag up in the House
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:28 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
No that's just a talking point Russia created
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:48 am to Wildcat1996
WW1 and WW2 showed that isolationism wasn't feasible US foreign policy in the 20th century. Technology had made the world too interconnected for the US to take a hands-off approach. The US has intervened by providing foreign military aid, and sometimes bodies, in dozens of conflicts since then, including multiple conflicts against China and Russia. Both have done the same to us as well.
This war is unique primarily due to the scale of Russia's attack, the geographical location, the level of destruction, and the actors involved.
From a strictly geopolitical (NOT moral) standpoint, supporting Ukraine has allowed the US et all to limit the conflict to the southern and eastern portions of Ukraine, and prevented Russia from moving to the Romanian, Moldovan, Polish, and Slovakian borders.
It's also severely damaged Russia's capacity to wage war, and probably weakened Putin politically as well.
It has also strengthened resolve of the NATO members, and will have long-lasting effects on training and readiness (see German and Polish expansion of military).
I think that is a small portion of the WHY. That isn't all inclusive; I'm sure a book could be written about it by someone a lot smarter and more knowledgeable than me.
This war is unique primarily due to the scale of Russia's attack, the geographical location, the level of destruction, and the actors involved.
From a strictly geopolitical (NOT moral) standpoint, supporting Ukraine has allowed the US et all to limit the conflict to the southern and eastern portions of Ukraine, and prevented Russia from moving to the Romanian, Moldovan, Polish, and Slovakian borders.
It's also severely damaged Russia's capacity to wage war, and probably weakened Putin politically as well.
It has also strengthened resolve of the NATO members, and will have long-lasting effects on training and readiness (see German and Polish expansion of military).
I think that is a small portion of the WHY. That isn't all inclusive; I'm sure a book could be written about it by someone a lot smarter and more knowledgeable than me.
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:51 am to AggieHank86
quote:They didn’t think that when Russia invaded Georgia in 2008 or Ukraine in 2014.
It seems possible that someone in Congress might think that containing Russian aggression is in the best interest of the United States.
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:58 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:
I remember when it was a conspiracy theory that the U.S. is involved in a proxy war there. Those were good times.
No. The "good times" were just a few years ago when those who are now fawning over Zelensky and Ukraine were saying Ukraine was the Second Coming of the Third Reich and Zelensky was a Nazi dictator.
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