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Started By
Message
re: Why does the cake baker allow gay couples to buy his premade cakes?
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:39 am to SUB
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:39 am to SUB
This can also get into freedom of association. If you own a restaurant and refuse to serve a gay couple, you have broken the law. A restaurant open to the public is by law required to serve anyone.
Requesting someone to cater an event is different. That takes the restaurant owner out of the public arena and moves them to a private event. If the owner doesn’t want to be associated with the event, why should the law force them to be? So if planned parenthood needs a caterer for an event, and you are pro life, why should you be forced to participate?
A wedding cake is the same. In most cases it is a layered cake that the baker delivers and sets up on site. They aren’t just making a cake, they are participants in the event.
Requesting someone to cater an event is different. That takes the restaurant owner out of the public arena and moves them to a private event. If the owner doesn’t want to be associated with the event, why should the law force them to be? So if planned parenthood needs a caterer for an event, and you are pro life, why should you be forced to participate?
A wedding cake is the same. In most cases it is a layered cake that the baker delivers and sets up on site. They aren’t just making a cake, they are participants in the event.
1
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:40 am to SUB
Why do you care? It's his religious belief. Why should you be able to force him to do something he doesn't want to do with his own business?
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:42 am to SUB
quote:
Why can't you read?
I can read fine.
His decision to sell pre made cakes to gays but not make custom cakes for gay marriages is his decision to make as a business owner. It neither has to make moral or business sense. It's his right as a business owner to live or die by his own decisions.
Can you even read your own post?
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:42 am to SUB
quote:
But he refuses to create one when requested by a gay couple
Do you think a baker should be forced to make me a Nazi cake, Blm cake, Muslim cake, pedophile cake, polygamist cake or whatever fricking cake I want? How bout I ask for a cake with two dogs fricking on top? Is that ok? Should we Force anyone to make whatever your little heart desires? But that's not what this shite is about is it? It's about forcing someone to accept your lifestyle. Period.
This post was edited on 12/5/17 at 9:44 am
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:42 am to SUB
Who in their right mind would want an edible product prepared by an individual who adamantly does not want to produce this product?
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:43 am to upgrayedd
quote:
Why do you care?
Curiosity?
quote:
Why should you be able to force him to do something he doesn't want to do with his own business?
I never said that anyone should? Several people in this thread think that, because I question his logic, I'm advocating for the government to force him to do something he doesn't want to do with his own business. That's not the case. You are preaching to the choir.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:44 am to rooster108bm
quote:
Do you think a baker should be forced to make me a Nazi cake, Blm cake, Muslim cake, pedophile cake, polygamist cake or whatever fricking cake I want?
Irrelevant. They didn't ask him to make a "gay cake." They asked him to make a wedding cake, something he already makes. They didn't ask him to put a message on it or anything that distinguishes it from straight cakes.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:45 am to Revelator
quote:
I can read fine.
Obviously not because I never said he should be compelled to do anything. Just trying to understand his logic on morality.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:46 am to SUB
quote:
he's willfully making cakes to be bought by anyone, and on the other, is unwilling to make one for gay couples.
So if I walk into a Muzzie or Jewish sandwich shop and want bacon added to my sandwich, should they be made to oblige? I mean I can buy a sandwich from the menu but I sure do like bacon added.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:46 am to SUB
quote:
This is what I don't get...He makes cakes ahead of time that can be bought for any type of couple, gay or straight. But he refuses to create one when requested by a gay couple. Why does he care so much about his "speech" when being requested to make a cake by a gay couple but doesn't care about it when he's making a cake that could be potentially bought by a gay couple? On one hand, he's willfully making cakes to be bought by anyone, and on the other, is unwilling to make one for gay couples.
Because god Hates figs
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:46 am to Erin Go Bragh
quote:
Who in their right mind would want an edible product prepared by an individual who adamantly does not want to produce this product?
This is the very question that I'd ask the gay couple. I'd say," I am strongly against making a cake for a gay wedding because I find it morally objectionable, but, if you force me to bake one for you anyway, are you comfortable with eating that cake and serving it to your friends?" And then I'd wryly smile.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:47 am to SUB
quote:
They didn't ask him to put a message on it or anything that distinguishes it from straight cakes.
Perhaps the two grooms on top the cake or perhaps the two male names was enough of a distinguishing feature for the baker to say, no thanks.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:47 am to SUB
I think it's a perfectly reasonable compromise but, of course, no one wants to compromise.
He's saying that gays can buy already made cakes because, let's face it, it's impossible to try and police random gays buying your cake. When someone purposely asks you to make a custom cake for Jim and Phil's wedding, it's a different ballgame. He thinks gay marriage is morally wrong and doesn't want to support it, so no one should make him. The guy probably doesn't hate gays, he just doesn't support them getting married.
He's saying that gays can buy already made cakes because, let's face it, it's impossible to try and police random gays buying your cake. When someone purposely asks you to make a custom cake for Jim and Phil's wedding, it's a different ballgame. He thinks gay marriage is morally wrong and doesn't want to support it, so no one should make him. The guy probably doesn't hate gays, he just doesn't support them getting married.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:48 am to SUB
quote:
Irrelevant
Here you are correct. They have no right to ask him to make whatever they want. Regardless of what it is or who else he makes other stuff for.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:49 am to Revelator
quote:
if you force me to bake one for you anyway, are you comfortable with eating that cake and serving it to your friends?" And then I'd wryly smile.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:53 am to Mr Reese
quote:
A wedding cake is the same. In most cases it is a layered cake that the baker delivers and sets up on site. They aren’t just making a cake, they are participants in the event.
This is what I think he feels. Making a customized cake for a gay wedding makes him willing participant in celebrating a gay wedding. So when requested to do so, he refuses. I get that. But he feels that making all these other cakes that can be bought in the store by anyone for any purpose, doesn't make him a willing participant because he had no intention for them to be used as wedding cakes in gay weddings? What if gay couples started buying up all his store bought cakes and using them as wedding cakes? Would he have to just ignore that fact to keep making cakes, because at that point, he would be a willing participant.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:55 am to SUB
quote:
Just trying to understand his logic on morality.
I think you've already gotten the answer you wanted.
There is a difference between...
A) Making a cake simply with the intention of making a cake and "letting the chips fall where they may," so to speak. Or as a Christian might say, after the cake is baked "God's will be done"
and
B) Making a cake that you know will be used for purposes that you do not condone.
This post was edited on 12/5/17 at 9:57 am
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:55 am to Erin Go Bragh
quote:
Perhaps the two grooms on top the cake or perhaps the two male names was enough of a distinguishing feature for the baker to say, no thanks.
Is this even part of what they asked? I haven't read anything about a request for 2 grooms on the cake or names.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:56 am to SUB
quote:
What if gay couples started buying up all his store bought cakes and using them as wedding cakes? Would he have to just ignore that fact to keep making cakes, because at that point, he would be a willing participant.
From what the store owners have said in the past I don't believe they would have a problem selling cakes to anyone for any purpose as long as they don't have to decorate that cake to celebrate a gay wedding.
Their business is selling cakes. They want to sell cakes.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:58 am to SUB
quote:
Is this even part of what they asked? I haven't read anything about a request for 2 grooms on the cake or names.
I don't either. Just speculating. Either there was a request to make the cake more gay appealing or the purchaser volunteered it was for a gay wedding.
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