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Why do people think ancestors of European Jews aren't really from Israel?

Posted on 1/18/18 at 5:51 pm
Posted by thebigmuffaletta
Member since Aug 2017
12830 posts
Posted on 1/18/18 at 5:51 pm
I hear this a lot from the We wuz Kangz crowd, white supremacists, and liberals.

I've heard all the Khazar conspiracy stuff for years.

When did this conspiracy theory start and is there any factual basis for it?
This post was edited on 1/18/18 at 6:07 pm
Posted by dcbl
Good guys wear white hats.
Member since Sep 2013
29650 posts
Posted on 1/18/18 at 6:03 pm to
Because most of them were born in Europe

Kind of like American blacks aren't really from Africa
Posted by Navytiger74
Member since Oct 2009
50458 posts
Posted on 1/18/18 at 6:04 pm to
quote:

Why do people think European Jews aren't really from Israel?
They and most of their ancestors haven't lived there in a couple of thousand years?

What does "from" somewhere mean to you?
Posted by thebigmuffaletta
Member since Aug 2017
12830 posts
Posted on 1/18/18 at 6:05 pm to
I should clarify, their ancestors didn't come from Israel. That's the running theory.
Posted by Schmelly
Member since Jan 2014
14446 posts
Posted on 1/18/18 at 6:05 pm to
Cause if u were born before 1948, you can’t be FROM Israel?
Posted by thebigmuffaletta
Member since Aug 2017
12830 posts
Posted on 1/18/18 at 6:06 pm to
Were the ancestors of European Jews from Israel?
Posted by Navytiger74
Member since Oct 2009
50458 posts
Posted on 1/18/18 at 6:07 pm to
ETA: And I don't buy the Khazar bullshite. It's been discredited by genetic testing.

But the criticism of the Jewish diaspora being "from Israel" isn't without basis, though for religious regions I concede that Israel is the historical homeland of the world's Jewish population.
Posted by Navytiger74
Member since Oct 2009
50458 posts
Posted on 1/18/18 at 6:07 pm to
quote:

Were the ancestors of European Jews from Israel?


I think that answer is evident in the post you responded to.
Posted by mahdragonz
Member since Jun 2013
6931 posts
Posted on 1/18/18 at 6:09 pm to
Palestinians have a better claim to Israel than most post WWII ashkanazi Jewish people presently living there.
Posted by thebigmuffaletta
Member since Aug 2017
12830 posts
Posted on 1/18/18 at 6:11 pm to
quote:

But the criticism of the Jewish diaspora being "from Israel" isn't without basis


What basis?
Posted by TheHarahanian
Actually not Harahan as of 6/2023
Member since May 2017
19495 posts
Posted on 1/18/18 at 6:18 pm to
Literally the first time I’ve ever heard any of this, and yet I instantly think, why would Jews from the Middle East with unquestioned lineage accept European Jewry if there were any question about them?
Posted by Navytiger74
Member since Oct 2009
50458 posts
Posted on 1/18/18 at 6:19 pm to
quote:


What basis?
The basis that no one else has a claim to a piece of land because their ancestors were kicked out by the fricking Assyrians, Romans, and Babylonians over several centuries 2000 years ago?

What's your claim or my claim to land wherever our ancestors came from even a few hundred years ago? And again, I support Israel's claim from a religious stand and because Israel has been re-established as the Jewish homeland for the better part of most people's lives--almost 70 years. I'm not an anti-Zionist. But if my religious beliefs weren't as they are and I wasn't relatively practically-minded, my opinion would be quite different. So I understand that people who don't share my beliefs have quite a different opinion.
Posted by thebigmuffaletta
Member since Aug 2017
12830 posts
Posted on 1/18/18 at 6:21 pm to
But that's not what I'm asking though. What's the basis that European Jews aren't descended from the Jews of Israel?
Posted by JEAUXBLEAUX
Bayonne, NJ
Member since May 2006
55358 posts
Posted on 1/18/18 at 6:24 pm to
Because it fits the neo Nazi agenda
Posted by Navytiger74
Member since Oct 2009
50458 posts
Posted on 1/18/18 at 6:24 pm to
quote:

But that's not what I'm asking though. What's the basis that European Jews aren't descended from the Jews of Israel?
Read your title. They are descended from the Jews of Israel.

Descending from peoples who inhabited a region millennia ago and being "from" that region are two different things.
Posted by thebigmuffaletta
Member since Aug 2017
12830 posts
Posted on 1/18/18 at 6:26 pm to
Yes, I'm aware of that. I'm asking why people think they aren't the direct descendants of Jews who were from Israel.
Posted by Navytiger74
Member since Oct 2009
50458 posts
Posted on 1/18/18 at 6:27 pm to
quote:

Yes, I'm aware of that. I'm asking why people think they aren't the direct descendants of Jews who were from Israel.


Well why are you asking me? I already specifically said the Khazar conspiracy shite has been debunked by genetic testing.
Posted by wmr
North of Dickson, South of Herman's
Member since Mar 2009
32518 posts
Posted on 1/18/18 at 6:28 pm to
quote:

I'm asking why people think they aren't the direct descendants of Jews who were from Israel.


People have lots of theories about lots of different things.

Why are you so concerned about Israel and Jews and what other people think of them?
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
20869 posts
Posted on 1/18/18 at 6:33 pm to
quote:

Were the ancestors of European Jews from Israel?


2000+ years ago? Maybe.

Thats a hell of a thing to verify, however.
Posted by narddogg81
Vancouver
Member since Jan 2012
19670 posts
Posted on 1/18/18 at 6:35 pm to
quote:

The basis that no one else has a claim to a piece of land because their ancestors were kicked out by the fricking Assyrians, Romans, and Babylonians over several centuries 2000 years ago? 
the Jews maintained a constant presence in Israel the entire time, it's well documented in records from numerous cultures, histories. But I guess your point is that since you think the "Palestinians" have a better claim than the Jews there now, by your logic all the Jews have to do is hold on to the land long enough and then the Palestinians have no argument. Which is fine, since they really do have no argument. All Arabs living in the territory that was declared Israel in 1948 had all the same rights as citizens that the Jews living there did. They gave that up when they failed to help their fellow countrymen fight off the invading neighboring Arab Nations, instead choosing to side with them and step aside so they could go exterminate those filthy Jews. But oops that didn't happen, so there they sit. You would think the Jordanians would just give them citizenship because they are literally identical genetically, ethnically, and culturally to the Jordanians (who by the way are primarily composed of Syrian immigrants to the area drawn by the increased silence and economic activity in the region created by the influx of Jews). Oh wait I know why they haven't. Because the Palestinians as a distinct people group are a psychotic death cult founded by a literal Hitler fanboy, who tried to take over Jordan by terroristic means in 1970, black September. Other highlights of the wonderful Palestinian people include sending in their own children as suicide bombers to blow up pizza parlors and checkpoints, shelling residential neighborhoods randomly with mortars and rockets, and at one point electing a literal terrorist organization Hamas as their government
This post was edited on 1/18/18 at 6:48 pm
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