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re: Why America was founded as a Christian nation
Posted on 4/27/25 at 10:18 am to Azkiger
Posted on 4/27/25 at 10:18 am to Azkiger
I think some people just want to believe he is a Christian. I don't see anything wrong with it tbh. I wouldn't say Trump is fundamentally a bad human being but he is definitely not a Saint Francis of Assissi. And if I'm being honest, not nearly as Christian as most folks I know in my town.
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Posted on 4/27/25 at 10:19 am to SlayTime
quote:
False, it is on the rise. Gen Z is slowly waking up to realize they will have to restore the Republic.
Unfortunately it's not, despite wishing to the contrary. Do some research on it.
I was wrong if I misspoke about it dying but it is without a doubt shrinking.
Posted on 4/27/25 at 10:20 am to Harry Boutte
quote:
Trump sure seems intent on deporting an awful lot of Christians.
Eh, what?
Posted on 4/27/25 at 10:25 am to FooManChoo
quote:
quote:
I've seen Christians do worse. I've even read about it.... in the Bible.
Christians will sin just like non-Christians, but Christians will feel a godly sorrow for their offenses against God and repent from those sins. A non-Christian will not repent because they will not be convicted by God’s word and Spirit that they have done anything wrong.
I don’t know Trump’s heart and spiritual state, but his works give me much reason for doubt about his salvation. I hope that his profession of faith is true and that he belongs to Christ and that he just has a weak and immature faith. I’m praying for him.
Posted on 4/27/25 at 11:15 am to somethingdifferent
My contention and the reason the whole Daniel 3 situation started is because someone said the declaration of independence was an example of the Christian beliefs we were founded upon and good place to start seeing those beliefs. Which was challenged and never backed up.... Instead biblical examples were given that as you've admitted don't match the colonist scenario....
This thread should be an easy win for biblical scholars to cite those beliefs from the text of our founding documents but has yet to happen ...
This thread should be an easy win for biblical scholars to cite those beliefs from the text of our founding documents but has yet to happen ...
Posted on 4/27/25 at 11:17 am to somethingdifferent
Can you name anywhere in the Bible it says if the king doesn't follow your religion you should over throw them because they aren't biblical enough? Or where you should take active resistance to the current government because of your beliefs?
Posted on 4/27/25 at 1:13 pm to theballguy
Catholics are Christian too.
Posted on 4/28/25 at 8:01 am to FooManChoo
quote:this particular Just War citation is a bit a fortiori because the biblical case can be even stronger in that citizens don't really even need lesser authorities for just cause to rebel, as was the case in Daniel 3.
such as joining with colonial governments against the King
Moreover, I would say the colonial rebellion started pretty organically from farmers and local merchants (regular colonists) and they were biblically justified, at least. For example, there were some examples of anti crown literature in circulation that wasn't produced by any government authority.
Otherwise, Augustine's work is extremely solid as a reference for believers
This post was edited on 4/28/25 at 8:06 am
Posted on 4/28/25 at 8:04 am to oklahogjr
quote:When did this happen?
biblical examples were given that as you've admitted don't match the colonist scenario
quote:You've been pointed to resources. The only person who can work on the understanding is you. And it is an easy win
has yet to happen
Posted on 4/28/25 at 8:28 am to somethingdifferent
quote:
When did this happen?
quote:
The believer is to obey authorities up to the point that the believer is forced to do something immoral or let something immoral happen. When the latter is the case, believers are to take a stand morally which can include active resistance. That is why the brothers in Daniel 3 did not obey. In that particular case, they passively resisted
As you mentioned here Daniel 3 discussed at most a passive resistance. Which is not really a great example for active resistance... Do you have examples of active resistance similar to what colonist did?
quote:
You've been pointed to resources. The only person who can work on the understanding is you. And it is an easy win
You clearly aren't able to articulate your beliefs. The Christian blogs were read and found lacking or biased. I'm simply trying to give you the ability to state your logic/reason to why American was founded on Christian beliefs. If you're unable to provide a direct answer I'll move on as it's clear it's not the case based on answers so far...
Posted on 4/28/25 at 8:43 am to oklahogjr
quote:
I'm simply trying to give you the ability to state your logic/reason to why American was founded on Christian beliefs.
I think this issue is more a matter of semantics.
It's more a question of defining "Christian beliefs", and whether those who established "America" intended to base its burgeoning society on Biblical-Christian ethics and morality (and not so much on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.)
As a related aside, America was technically "founded" by various "Companies" during the 1600s, like the Dutch East India Company, the Virginia Company of Plymouth and eventually the British East India Company. Biblical ethics and morality simplified maintaining law and order in the new colonies.
Posted on 4/28/25 at 8:55 am to Harry Boutte
quote:
Catholics are Christian too.
Is this context about the "newcomer" MS-illegals who are being repatriated back to places like El Salvador?
Posted on 4/28/25 at 9:02 am to Wellborn
The Founders were predominantly Christian, but they made it clear in writings and public statements that they did not want there to be a national religion. And we have the Establishment Clause that’s pretty clear.
The fact that most Americans identify as Christians doesn’t make it the “ official”
religion… We have citizens of many faiths. That’s only natural in a free democratic republic.
The fact that most Americans identify as Christians doesn’t make it the “ official”
religion… We have citizens of many faiths. That’s only natural in a free democratic republic.
Posted on 4/28/25 at 9:03 am to FooManChoo
quote:
I don’t know Trump’s heart and spiritual state, but his works give me much reason for doubt about his salvation. I hope that his profession of faith is true and that he belongs to Christ
Trump is not a Christian by any definition of the word. He says things that are politically expedient, clumsy, and frankly, insulting and condescending to actual Christians.
If I were to guess, I believe Donald Trump, like his daughter and SIL follows the Jewish Kabbalah.
Posted on 4/28/25 at 10:26 am to oklahogjr
quote:Do you know who David is?
Do you have examples of active resistance similar to what colonist did?
quote:You're making this harder than it has to be. There's no reason why you can't read the resources that have been linked itt. You're just being obtuse. By this point, you could have searched google for dozens of hours
You clearly aren't able to articulate your beliefs
quote:
The Christian blogs were read and found lacking or biased
When you want to engage in a grown up conversation, why don't you break those articles down for usPosted on 4/28/25 at 10:29 am to VOR
quote:which isn't really the conversation. They did infuse Christian beliefs into their crafting of the nation
they made it clear in writings and public statements that they did not want there to be a national religion
quote:Was that the case when the nation was founded or in the years leading up to it?
We have citizens of many faiths
Posted on 4/28/25 at 10:34 am to oklahogjr
quote:The question isn't the obvious examples, several of which have been mentioned itt. The question is why you're being obtuse about something so obvious. Are you just debating for the sake of debating? What point are you trying to make?
oklahogjr
Posted on 4/28/25 at 11:05 am to somethingdifferent
My point is that anytime when asked what Christian beliefs we were founded on, no one can specify those beliefs. Or we get something weak stated such as well just read the declaration of independence or 10 commandments say don't murder example shown...
Something such as a belief were foundef upon shouldnt need all the extra go read and debate a blog post nonsense. It should be as simple as showing biblically this is a Christian belief that we uphold and here is that same belief in our constitution. Anything other than that so far has been a pretty big stretch to link Christianity to our founding principles.
Something such as a belief were foundef upon shouldnt need all the extra go read and debate a blog post nonsense. It should be as simple as showing biblically this is a Christian belief that we uphold and here is that same belief in our constitution. Anything other than that so far has been a pretty big stretch to link Christianity to our founding principles.
Posted on 4/28/25 at 11:10 am to oklahogjr
quote:
My point is that anytime when asked what Christian beliefs we were founded on, no one can specify those beliefs. Or we get something weak stated such as well just read the declaration of independence or 10 commandments say don't murder example shown...
It’s literally in the video I posted
Posted on 4/28/25 at 11:32 am to texag7
You cited the highlights there. Not one of them was a Christian belief were founded upon.
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