- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Who here would accept a carve-out for rape, health, or “quality of life”?
Posted on 6/28/22 at 7:48 am to Ag Zwin
Posted on 6/28/22 at 7:48 am to Ag Zwin
quote:True Believers (anti-abortion absolutists) will never accept ANY carve-out.
Who here would accept a carve-out for rape, health, or “quality of life”?
Anyone willing to do so is, by definition, pro-Choice. The only question is “How much so?”
0
Posted on 6/28/22 at 7:54 am to jmarto1
quote:
Over 99% of abortions are for unwanted pregnancies and we all know that isn't contraceptive failure.
FIFY. And you're right, this is the part that team baby killer doesn't talk about because is destroys their narrative.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 7:59 am to Kingshakabooboo
quote:I suggest that you may want to review your state’s law on self-defense. The fetus is not acting aggressively towards the pregnant woman.
In case where mothers life is at risk then yes, mother has right of self defense Even if it’s against unborn child.
Absent such aggression, I am not aware of any state that allows the “self-defense“ justification to forgive the murder of one person to protect the life of another. See Billy Budd.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 8:16 am to td1
quote:
I don’t get the quality of life part. Quality of life sucked in the 30s, and there was one hell of a generation born during that time.
Maybe I should have explained this better, but I thought the example I used painted the picture.
What I was referring to was if the baby would be born with a condition that forced a lifetime of intensive care, yet they would never actually enjoy their life. Think something like severe microcephaly that effectively rendered them a vegetable.
I don’t want this to be a “diagnoses can be wrong” exercise. For the sake of the debate, let’s assume you can indeed know that an issue like this is the outcome.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 8:34 am to Ag Zwin
I would not accept those carved out measures, no. The issue is a moral one.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 8:41 am to Ag Zwin
I think Mississippi has it right (crazy, I know). Rape if charges are pressed, or health of the mother.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 10:21 am to Ace Midnight
Facts About Abortion
This has been the best breakdown I could find so far. I welcome others if you have it
This has been the best breakdown I could find so far. I welcome others if you have it
Posted on 6/28/22 at 10:25 am to Ag Zwin
Only life of mother, as determined by doctor
Posted on 6/28/22 at 10:27 am to Kattail
Rape, incest, life of the mother would be obvious exceptions.
Not sure what "quality of life" means
Not sure what "quality of life" means
Posted on 6/28/22 at 10:32 am to jmarto1
I’ll admit that some of these numbers surprised me.
quote:
Induced abortions usually result from unintended pregnancies, which often occur despite the use of contraception (CDC).
In 2014, 51% of women having abortions used birth control during the month they became pregnant. (AGI).
9 in 10 women at risk of unintended pregnancy are using a birth control method (AGI).
Oral contraceptives, the most widely used reversible method of contraception, carry failure rates of 6 to 8% in actual practice (NAF).
Posted on 6/28/22 at 10:43 am to Ag Zwin
Assuming the study was done properly, yes it is eye opening. Still, the pro-choice side needs to acknowledge the irresponsibility that occurs. Extend an olive branch and have both sides work on that
Posted on 6/28/22 at 11:38 am to AggieHank86
quote:
I suggest that you may want to review your state’s law on self-defense. The fetus is not acting aggressively towards the pregnant woman.
Absent such aggression, I am not aware of any state that allows the “self-defense“ justification to forgive the murder of one person to protect the life of another. See Billy Budd.
In Florida, here is the relevant section from the 'Justifiable Use of Force' statute:
quote:
A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.
I've seen winning arguments made with a lot less.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 12:21 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
First let me restate that abortion is murder and this is the only reason I’m evenly remotely open to it. You are correct that the unborn baby is not willfully responsible for the mothers life being at risk but if the mother dies then the unborn child will also die. If the situation means the unborn child will lose its life either way then I think I could come to terms with at least saving the mothers life. And again, this would be the only reason I could fathom justifying it but it would still probably haunt me for the remainder of my life. Also we are talking about such a small fraction of existing abortions.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 4:10 pm to Kingshakabooboo
quote:
First let me restate that abortion is murder and this is the only reason I’m evenly remotely open to it.
It's weird to me that someone who thinks abortion is the literal murder of a baby is "even remotely open to it" sometimes.
I'm never open to murdering babies. You shouldn't be, either.
This post was edited on 6/28/22 at 4:50 pm
Posted on 6/28/22 at 4:15 pm to Ag Zwin
Based on your proposal, my friend wouldn’t be alive today. So nope.
How about this, if you have a child and do not want the responsibility of taking care of the child, then you will be sterilized and your child placed up for adoption.
How about this, if you have a child and do not want the responsibility of taking care of the child, then you will be sterilized and your child placed up for adoption.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 4:15 pm to Ag Zwin
quote:
Who here would accept a carve-out for rape, health, or “quality of life”?
Why would I accept that given where we stand on Roe now?
Posted on 6/28/22 at 4:49 pm to Ag Zwin
Define health. That is the issue. It’s wide open.
Life of the mother,or birthing person, that is more definitive.
That’s the basic difference between republicans and Demorats position. Life v. Health of the mother.
Life of the mother,or birthing person, that is more definitive.
That’s the basic difference between republicans and Demorats position. Life v. Health of the mother.
This post was edited on 6/28/22 at 7:21 pm
Posted on 6/30/22 at 4:35 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
It's weird to me that someone who thinks abortion is the literal murder of a baby is "even remotely open to it" sometimes. I'm never open to murdering babies. You shouldn't be, either.
I feel like you and I would probably agree on 99% of political topics. Which is why it really bothers me that you are only focusing on part of what I stated. Yes I am completely 100% against murdering babies which is why I stated in my very first response why I wouldn’t condone it even for rape or incest or even medical cases where ONLY the babies life was at risk. The only distinction I would consider is if pregnancy was going to kill the mother. So let me put this to you with 2 questions.
1. If the pregnant mother dies, what happens to the unborn child she is carrying? Does it not also die? Therefore if the child will die EITHER WAY, would you not think it prudent to at least protect the life of the mother? Again let me state that I am 100% against ALL OTHER reasons for abortion and I am acutely aware we are debating about a scenario that is probably infinitely rare.
2. If you just walk up in the street and shoot someone in the face it’s murder. And I think we both can agree that is horrible and wrong and you shouldn’t shoot people in the face. However if someone breaks into your home at night while your family is there and asleep and you feel their safety is at risk, so you shoot the intruder in the face. Is that murder? No it’s self defense and justified. Either way you are killing someone.
So again, while I think it’s still a traumatic event, and one not taken lightly, and one that would absolutely rip at my soul for the remainder of my life, I do think that in that one rare situation, yes the mother has the right of self defense, even against her unborn child.
Posted on 6/30/22 at 6:55 am to Kingshakabooboo
quote:
I feel like you and I would probably agree on 99% of political topics.
Maybe, but on abortion, we don't. I don't think abortion is always "murdering babies." That's why I have no issues with legitimate exceptions, including life of the mother, but also rape, incest, etc.
But, if you're OK with that exception, it follows that you should be OK with others. If you can't "punish the baby" for something it didn't do, as others have stated, that should apply to every situation.
quote:
1. If the pregnant mother dies, what happens to the unborn child she is carrying? Does it not also die? Therefore if the child will die EITHER WAY, would you not think it prudent to at least protect the life of the mother? Again let me state that I am 100% against ALL OTHER reasons for abortion and I am acutely aware we are debating about a scenario that is probably infinitely rare.
At some point in the pregnancy, the unborn child is potentially viable. That doesn't mean it hasn't posed a health risk up to and including death for the mother prior to that point.
quote:
2. If you just walk up in the street and shoot someone in the face it’s murder. And I think we both can agree that is horrible and wrong and you shouldn’t shoot people in the face. However if someone breaks into your home at night while your family is there and asleep and you feel their safety is at risk, so you shoot the intruder in the face. Is that murder? No it’s self defense and justified. Either way you are killing someone.
Not sure I get your point here. The fetus isn't a home intruder.
Posted on 6/30/22 at 7:17 am to Ag Zwin
No baby murder under any circumstance. No compromise.
Page 4 of 5
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News