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re: What would america's literacy rate be if
Posted on 1/4/14 at 10:23 pm to Gmorgan4982
Posted on 1/4/14 at 10:23 pm to Gmorgan4982
sane people
2
Posted on 1/4/14 at 10:42 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
I'm sane and I don't think it's logical. There are so many different ways young people can learn things now. Why is locking them in a room for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week the only way they can learn to read? Do you think that because that's the way you learned? Why does that seem logical to you? There has been an evolution of methods in delivering information to people in the past 150 years.
Even if you disagree, then why not let the market decide the best way of teaching young people instead of using some thugs to enforce the ideas and wishes of politicians?
Even if you disagree, then why not let the market decide the best way of teaching young people instead of using some thugs to enforce the ideas and wishes of politicians?
This post was edited on 1/4/14 at 10:44 pm
Posted on 1/4/14 at 11:06 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
the reason parents today (and their parents before, and parents before that) can teach children to read and write at home is because of schooling way back.
please learn the broken window fallacy and get back to us
This post was edited on 1/4/14 at 11:23 pm
Posted on 1/4/14 at 11:21 pm to lsutothetop
I don't think I said what you quoted me as saying
Posted on 1/4/14 at 11:22 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Holy frick 
Fixed
Fixed
This post was edited on 1/4/14 at 11:23 pm
Posted on 1/4/14 at 11:25 pm to lsutothetop
How is it the broken window? I understand the broken window and the fact that destruction does not lead to economic growth.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 11:37 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
The fallacy behind the broken window is that it doesn't take into account the possible alternatives to spending money on repairs if the repairs didn't need to be made. The problem is that it looks only at what did happen and not what would happen in absence of what did happen.
It's the same issue here. Yes, people who can read in the US today by and large learned most of their reading skills at school. But that doesn't mean that in absence of that schooling, they wouldn't be able to read; with that extra time, their parents might (read: would, if the parents felt they had to pull the kids out of school) teach them to read instead, and so schooling to read wouldn't be necessary.
What you're arguing is akin to saying that because I picked up Wendy's for dinner tonight, if I didn't pick up Wendy's I would have gone hungry. That's flatly not true; if I didn't pick up Wendy's, I'd have heated something up at home, or maybe gone to a different restaurant. I don't "owe" my not being hungry right now to Wendy's, as I could have chosen from any number of suitable alternatives. Likewise, kids today don't "owe" their schools for being able to read, as their parents could have chosen to teach them to read if they had decided for whatever reason not to send their kids to school.
It's the same issue here. Yes, people who can read in the US today by and large learned most of their reading skills at school. But that doesn't mean that in absence of that schooling, they wouldn't be able to read; with that extra time, their parents might (read: would, if the parents felt they had to pull the kids out of school) teach them to read instead, and so schooling to read wouldn't be necessary.
What you're arguing is akin to saying that because I picked up Wendy's for dinner tonight, if I didn't pick up Wendy's I would have gone hungry. That's flatly not true; if I didn't pick up Wendy's, I'd have heated something up at home, or maybe gone to a different restaurant. I don't "owe" my not being hungry right now to Wendy's, as I could have chosen from any number of suitable alternatives. Likewise, kids today don't "owe" their schools for being able to read, as their parents could have chosen to teach them to read if they had decided for whatever reason not to send their kids to school.
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:47 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
schooling was entirely free market?
Probably about 50%.
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:49 pm to SpidermanTUba
quote:
schooling was entirely free market?
Probably about 50%.
Probably about what it is in some of our public school districts now.
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:52 pm to SpidermanTUba
quote:Not that low. I would say, however, that about 30-40% of children in public school right now have parents that would have no money to pay for free market schoools.
Probably about 50%.
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:56 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Probably about what it is in some of our public school districts now.
Looks like no states get above 25% lacking basic prose literacy, whatever that means.
LINK
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:56 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
I would say, however, that about 30-40% of children in public school right now have parents that would have no money to pay for free market schoools.
Probably you're right. This is America though, not Communist Russia - not all children deserve an education. If they wanted one they should have picked richer parents.
This post was edited on 1/5/14 at 9:58 pm
Posted on 1/5/14 at 10:00 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Some Michigan public schools are doing a great job.
LINK
LINK
quote:
In the Highland Park school district, just outside of Detroit, only 10 percent of students from third to eighth grade are proficient in reading and math. As to be expected, the statistics get even worse as the students get older. Each year, kids in 11th grade take the Michigan Merit Exam to see if they are college-ready. In 2011, 90 percent of Highland Park students failed the reading portion, 97 percent failed the math section, and 100 percent failed the social studies and science portions.
Posted on 1/5/14 at 10:02 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
In the Highland Park school district, just outside of Detroit, only 10 percent of students from third to eighth grade are proficient in reading and math.
"Not proficient" != illiteracy.
Proficiency is a higher bar than basic literacy.
Posted on 1/5/14 at 10:02 pm to RogerTheShrubber
I agree that high school is mostly a waste of money in America's worst inner cities. What % of these kids even go to college? Moreover, the ones who WANT to go to college already go to some charter school or private school.
Posted on 1/5/14 at 10:03 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
I agree that high school is mostly a waste of money in America's worst inner cities.
We should throw those kids away. What wastes.
Posted on 1/5/14 at 10:04 pm to SpidermanTUba
quote:
"Not proficient" != illiteracy.
Proficiency is a higher bar than basic literacy.
I didn't use the term illiterate. Maybe you should brush up on it??
Reread my post, then look up the term "reading comprehension."
Posted on 1/5/14 at 10:05 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
I agree that high school is mostly a waste of money in America's worst inner cities. What % of these kids even go to college? Moreover, the ones who WANT to go to college already go to some charter school or private school.
It's a money drain. If people don't value education, you can't force them to learn. Right now, we have expensive baby sitting services in many districts.
Posted on 1/5/14 at 10:06 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
I didn't use the term illiterate. Maybe you should brush up on it??
I didn't say you used it. Its the subject of this thread. If you want to write posts unconstricted by the context of the OP, start a thread with the title "" and post whatever you want.
Posted on 1/5/14 at 10:08 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
It's a money drain. If people don't value education, you can't force them to learn.
I reject your apparent presumption that poor people do not value education.
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