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re: What is the liberal argument against merit based immigration policy?
Posted on 1/21/18 at 8:01 pm to omegaman66
Posted on 1/21/18 at 8:01 pm to omegaman66
quote:1. no they arent. no one is.
It just mean (russia is) targeted for destruction just like we are.
2. if there was a list like that, they should be on it, because they do have one, and were at the fricking top in bold all caps.
0
Posted on 1/21/18 at 8:02 pm to MastrShake
quote:
meaning what? a felony?
no. far less. not being productive as intended
if you want an objective qualifier....if they rely on a form of distributive social welfare
Posted on 1/21/18 at 8:24 pm to MastrShake
Solid, thoughtful answer.
Immediate family (spouses and children) of an immigrant is perfectly fine with me. Brothers, sisters, parents, grandparents, cousins etc is not okay.
It isn't the easiest thing to define but we can do it. One way would be to block any new immigrants from any form of welfare for a certain period of time.
In the past I would agree with your description of America. Taking the world's poor and letting them make something out of themselves here is one of our proudest global achievements.
But the past is the past. We have so many problems in our own country right now that we can't afford to have more. We need people coming in that are benefiting our economy immediately. Not a project that takes years and may not work out.
Sadly, the mass entitlement culture that has developed here plays a major factor in this. It was easier to take the poor from Ireland in the 1800s when they had to pick themselves up from the mat the second they docked at Ellis. Now we have people coming here solely to take advantage of us.
Yes. And upvoted you.
quote:
the first issue is who does "merit" apply to? if its a family and one of the parents has a masters in engineering, i assume that parent gets in (though maybe thats still not good enough for some based on other factors) but who else gets in with them? anyone? no one? is it just the one parent? immediate family? the parents of the parent?
Immediate family (spouses and children) of an immigrant is perfectly fine with me. Brothers, sisters, parents, grandparents, cousins etc is not okay.
quote:
the other immediate problem is that "merit" could mean essentially anything. its a sliding scale depending on who is making the rules at any given point.
It isn't the easiest thing to define but we can do it. One way would be to block any new immigrants from any form of welfare for a certain period of time.
quote:
isnt that what America is supposed to be? a country that helps people in need? the land of opportunity? or do we slam the door in their face? if you consider yourself a good person, ask yourself if thats what good people do. do you help the poor and downtrodden or do you tell them to go frick themselves?
In the past I would agree with your description of America. Taking the world's poor and letting them make something out of themselves here is one of our proudest global achievements.
But the past is the past. We have so many problems in our own country right now that we can't afford to have more. We need people coming in that are benefiting our economy immediately. Not a project that takes years and may not work out.
Sadly, the mass entitlement culture that has developed here plays a major factor in this. It was easier to take the poor from Ireland in the 1800s when they had to pick themselves up from the mat the second they docked at Ellis. Now we have people coming here solely to take advantage of us.
quote:
btw did anyone even read this far before downvoting?
Yes. And upvoted you.
Posted on 1/21/18 at 8:26 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
There is way too much talk about legal immigration. We need to fix the illegal immigration problem first. Keep those from sneaking across the border and round up those who have overstayed their visas. This is where the real issues are with the people who have violated our laws to reside in the US.
There are some things about legal immigration that need to be refined (including a merit-based component, the diversity lottery, etc.). I am a Trump supporter, but I think he has gone a little overboard when he says to end “chain migration” and such. There needs to be some reasonable limits to chain migration.
There are some things about legal immigration that need to be refined (including a merit-based component, the diversity lottery, etc.). I am a Trump supporter, but I think he has gone a little overboard when he says to end “chain migration” and such. There needs to be some reasonable limits to chain migration.
Posted on 1/21/18 at 8:26 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
I am fine with a merit based policy, but you have to have chain migration if you want merit based migration. The two work together. Let's say you have a young bright man from Norway who's a doctor. Let's say he has a fiancé or wife who is in Norway. Chain migration is the only sure way to bring her to the US if she does not have an advanced skill that we supposedly need. What if she majored in history in Norway or elementary education the only way to bring her is via chain migration.
Let's say a American serviceman stationed in Korea marries a Korean girl. Let's say she wants her parents to come to the US and her brother and sister since America offers them a better opportunity and they want to be reunited. You going to tell a veteran who served his country that his wife can't bring her family to the US?
Let's say you have an engineer from Mexico who General Dynamics wants to hire. You going to tell General Dynamics that the guy's wife and kids and brother can't come to the US?
Let's say a Southern Baptist on a mission to Afghanistan marries and converts a women to Christianity and she wants to bring her family back since they may face death in Afghanistan.
Good luck with that you conservatives.
Hey Ralph, Nice response really..
Given all of your examples, I would agree to immediate family members, same as most corporations designate immediate family. Problem with chain migration is that Uncles, Aunts, cousins, uncle inlaws, etc. are all coming over and it needs to stop.
Posted on 1/21/18 at 8:30 pm to mouton
Honestly, I don't think most people understand what a "merit-based" system is, and if it was explained to them, they would support it. I personally have zero problems with a merit-based system so long as family-based green cards for spouses and children are maintained.
I think most liberals are opposed to rounding up dreamers and trampling on sanctuary cities, but those things are largely separate from the debate over our legal immigration system.
I think most liberals are opposed to rounding up dreamers and trampling on sanctuary cities, but those things are largely separate from the debate over our legal immigration system.
Posted on 1/21/18 at 8:40 pm to Wildcat In Germany
You basically described the immigration policy that is so vehemently opposed by self described liberals that shut down the government.
Posted on 1/21/18 at 8:54 pm to MastrShake
quote:
russia is not a friend to America, you understand that, right? they work to undermine us around the world in every way they can. putin sends oil and money to iraq, cuba, north korea, and venezuela, among other places, directly undermining US efforts in those countries.
Why is America the only country allowed to screw around with the 3rd world? Russia putting the interests of Russia ahead of others is not a bad thing. America does the same thing, but you seem OK with that.
quote:
he also bankrolls extreme political parties like jobbik in hungary, golden dawn in greece, and ataka in bulgaria, among others.
all he cares about is causing dissension and turmoil in those countries, he wants to break them down and, by extension, build russia up.
Exactly like the US. You can't support the US doing these things while thinking Russia is bad for doing it.
quote:
do you not know any of this or do you just not care because it might make trump look bad?
does trump really mean that much to you that youd side with russia over America?
What does this have to do with Trump? Not wanting to be enemies with Russia is not putting Russia over America. It's quite the opposite actually. If you don't want to be a slave to the globalists, then Russia should definitely be a friend. They are the most powerful force fighting against them, after all. Russia is not the boogeyman the left tries to make them out to be.
Posted on 1/21/18 at 8:59 pm to TxTiger82
quote:
Honestly, I don't think most people understand what a "merit-based" system is, and if it was explained to them, they would support it.
especially if you said it wasn't the policy of the US
pretty much every country progressives see as better than the US, including immigration policy, have much more restrictive, often merit-based immigration policies without birthright citizenship
Posted on 1/21/18 at 9:09 pm to mouton
Simple. They won't get the voters they need to stay in power.
Posted on 1/21/18 at 9:16 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I'm going to give you an honest answer. Liberals are not motivated by simple stupidity. They are motivated by their core value system... EQUALITY.
They don't want equal opportunity they want equal OUTCOME. That's why they tear down the rich with "you didn't build that" BS to minimize their success. For example they don't look at Trump turning millions into billions as good ROI.
Posted on 1/21/18 at 9:16 pm to MastrShake
quote:
the other immediate problem is that "merit" could mean essentially anything. its a sliding scale depending on who is making the rules at any given point.
with last nights UFC fight still fresh in mind, i cant help but think of francis ngannou. the guy was in Cameroon as a kid up to his knees in water and shoveling sand in sand mines to survive. he had essentially nothing when he immigrated to Paris and was homeless for a long time after he arrived.
this is a good man. a smart and driven and articulate person. once he was given a chance, he made something of him self.
This argument supports merit based systems...
Dude crawled from a sludge mine, a thousand miles from a combination of running water, plumbing and the internet...
The other 75 shitheads are still shoveling sludge...his parents pulled him out, took risks and tried...and now he's succeeding
Posted on 1/21/18 at 9:20 pm to chickenpotpie
quote:
Why is America the only country allowed to screw around with the 3rd world? Russia putting the interests of Russia ahead of others is not a bad thing. America does the same thing, but you seem OK with that.
quote:why are you quoting me as if this is a response? i never said anything at all to even hint that i was ok with America doing this. im not. at all. in any way. its one of our biggest problems. its why so much of the world hates us, it gets Americans killed.
Exactly like the US. You can't support the US doing these things while thinking Russia is bad for doing it.
Posted on 1/21/18 at 9:25 pm to mouton
quote:The black population isn't large enough to secure victory in all elections for us.
What is the liberal argument against merit based immigration policy?
We need to import more uneducated and ignorant voters who we can give welfare to so we can secure their votes in exchange.
Signed,
Democrats
This post was edited on 1/21/18 at 9:28 pm
Posted on 1/21/18 at 9:28 pm to mouton
The liberal argument is “muh huddled masses”
Posted on 1/21/18 at 9:39 pm to IceTiger
quote:no.
This argument supports merit based systems. Dude crawled from a sludge mine...The other 75 shitheads are still shoveling sludge...his parents pulled him out, took risks and tried...and now he's succeeding
no. no they didnt.
you really shouldn't talk about things you obviously know nothing about.
his parents weren't together, he didnt live with either one of them, when he left for Paris he went alone, with nothing, his parents had nothing to do with any of his success.
Posted on 1/21/18 at 9:40 pm to mouton
By “ argument “ you mean how hysterically they choose to emote against it , right?
Posted on 1/21/18 at 9:48 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
especially if you said it wasn't the policy of the US
pretty much every country progressives see as better than the US, including immigration policy, have much more restrictive, often merit-based immigration policies without birthright citizenship
Ha yea that's probably true, SFP. As you know, I think, I lived in Austria for two years. They have a merit-based system. Nothing wrong with it. In fact, it was highly logical. A pain in the arse for me, but logical.
Posted on 1/21/18 at 9:52 pm to TxTiger82
all those sheep who "crashed the Canadian system" or whatever after Trump won had literally no idea how impossible it is to become a Canadian citizen. i know a little about it b/c it was a big deal in the poker community after Black Friday (many moved to Vancouver to play online poker)
This post was edited on 1/21/18 at 9:53 pm
Posted on 1/21/18 at 9:54 pm to mouton
It would deny them of the free-for-all unencumbered invasion by the dregs who contribute nothing, and therefore since the immigration policy were actually merit based, those properly vetted immigrants would be productive, tax paying citizens who contribute to society and not be dependent upon their handouts, thus denying them a voter base. Not rocket science at all. quite simple, actually.
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