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re: What are your reasons for believing climate change is "a hoax"
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:43 pm to Powerman
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:43 pm to Powerman
I don’t like how the data is being adjusted. Also I feel the urban heat island is altering data and long standing measurement sites in fields are now urbanized (nearby parking lots, air conditioners, etc affecting the temps)
The earth is warming but not at a rate to justify making drastic changes to our standard of living
The earth is warming but not at a rate to justify making drastic changes to our standard of living
2
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:43 pm to Lonnie Utah
quote:Who is Jagdish Shukla?
Now, I don't know a lot of "rich" scientists. I'm sure they're are some
He's a lead author on the IPCC. The (*cough*nonprofit*cough*) Institute for Environment and Society... And one of those calling for prosecution of "climate science deniers" in 2014.
Let's see what the IRS has to say about him...
LINK ]LINK [PDF file]
LINK ]LINK [PDF File]
LINK ]LINK [PDF File]
Over the last three years Jagdish's *cough*nonprofit*cough* received roughly $12.12 Million in federal grants. ($16.44M over last four years, but their history goes back at about this funding level to at least 2005).
Over the last three years the "non-profit" foundation paid $1,379,464 in salary to it's chairman of the board Jagadish Shukla and his wife[/b] who pretended to be *cough* business manager.
A more complete summary...
quote:
since 2001 the organization has received more than $63 million — 98 percent of its total revenue — from taxpayers, mainly in the form of grants from the National Science Foundation, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. And an astonishing amount of that money has ended up in Dr. Shukla’s pock
quote:
That’s largely because the IGES has a tight-knit staff — very tight. The “business manager” is Jagadish Shukla’s wife, Anastasia, and the “assistant business manager”/”assistant to the president” is their daughter, Sonia. According to the Shuklas’ tax filings, they have pocketed $5.6 million in compensation from IGES since 2001 (not including Sonia’s earnings, which have gone unreported). That is on top of Jagadish’s salary from George Mason — a public university, by the way — which paid him $314,000 in 2014.
Poor guy... he was only making $314k from his real job.... quote:
This “double-dipping” — receiving compensation from a research organization on top of academic compensation — is prohibited by the federal agencies from which IGES receives money, as well as by George Mason University
quote:Just a bunch of waiflike guys working away in their labs everyday with no pay for the good of the common man.
Unsurprisingly, the only other member of the IGES staff is a longtime associate of Shukla: George Mason University professor James Kinter, who runs the Institute’s Center for Ocean-Land-Atmosphere Studies (COLA). The pair have worked together since 1984. Kinter, too, appears to have double-dipped, adding $180,038 from IGES to his $171,320 salary in 2014.
Interestingly... Mr. Shulka appears in teh climategate emails. He wrote...
quote::lol: I'm certain he'd know... no warming no funding.
<5131> Shukla/IGES:
["Future of the IPCC", 2008] It is inconceivable that policymakers will be willing to make billion-and trillion-dollar decisions for adaptation to the projected regional climate change based on models that do not even describe and simulate the processes that are the building blocks of climate variability.
This post was edited on 3/7/18 at 12:44 pm
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:43 pm to Man4others
quote:
The earth is warming but not at a rate to justify making drastic changes to our standard of living
Reasonable stance
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:46 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
Why do I think climate change is a hoax?
Simple, a Colorado ski slope just shut down due to lack of snow this season, and all of the left are screaming Climate Change.
Meanwhile, when ski slopes hit record snow pack a couple of years back, all of the left were screaming NOT Climate Change.
Every weather anomaly sends people into a panic while blaming it on climate change, when in reality, it's just natural weather patterns for a region. Colorado is a high tundra. That means we have a mild, dry climate. Some years it's going to be dry as shite and we'll have endless wildfires. Some years we'll have record snowfall/rainfall with flooding and mosquito outbreaks.
Simple, a Colorado ski slope just shut down due to lack of snow this season, and all of the left are screaming Climate Change.
Meanwhile, when ski slopes hit record snow pack a couple of years back, all of the left were screaming NOT Climate Change.
Every weather anomaly sends people into a panic while blaming it on climate change, when in reality, it's just natural weather patterns for a region. Colorado is a high tundra. That means we have a mild, dry climate. Some years it's going to be dry as shite and we'll have endless wildfires. Some years we'll have record snowfall/rainfall with flooding and mosquito outbreaks.
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:47 pm to Powerman
quote:
So an opinion based on facts is less sound than an opinion based on the opposite of those facts?
Your opinion is based on your ability to count the number of people in the room that agree with you.
You've already admitted to not actually having a grasp of the facts involved.
Is that enough brevity for ya?
And hey, I realize you young folks think Twitter is a debate platform.....but some of us articulate full blown ideas.
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:48 pm to 1MileTiger
quote:
Simple, a Colorado ski slope just shut down due to lack of snow this season, and all of the left are screaming Climate Change.
Meanwhile, when ski slopes hit record snow pack a couple of years back, all of the left were screaming NOT Climate Change.
Every weather anomaly sends people into a panic while blaming it on climate change, when in reality, it's just natural weather patterns for a region. Colorado is a high tundra. That means we have a mild, dry climate. Some years it's going to be dry as shite and we'll have endless wildfires. Some years we'll have record snowfall/rainfall with flooding and mosquito outbreaks.
While I agree with you on all of these points, man made climate change can still be real in parallel with these.
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:48 pm to Powerman
quote:
Wait you didn't know this?
Now you're delving into Cathy Newman territory. You realize that, right?
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:50 pm to Powerman
quote:
Right. Science sort of takes care of that internally.
It SHOULD
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:50 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Now you're delving into Cathy Newman territory. You realize that, right?
I just find it surprising that you would think I'm "embarrassing myself" by claiming that ExxonMobil and Koch industries have funneled money into climate denying organizations.
I thought this was well known. And honestly surprised that you didn't know it.
Do you deny that they did this?
This post was edited on 3/7/18 at 12:51 pm
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:50 pm to Man4others
quote:
The earth is warming but not at a rate to justify making drastic changes to our standard of living
I think the point you're making is the reason why so many are not keen to jump on the global warming bandwagon.
China, India and other emerging nations are not going to cease their efforts to gain an economic foothold in the global market by adhering to environmental guidelines that limit their economic growth. Americans should be skeptical, if not out and out reject, efforts to regulate their industries and cause economic harm to the country.
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:51 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
Sounds like YOU believe in conspiracy theories.
He agrees, as do I........that a legitimate scientist can have his research affected and conclusions affected by who funds him.........for OIL.
Then, forgets that reality for everyone else.
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:52 pm to Powerman
Moving goal posts so fast its hard to keep up with you soyboys.
Take your strawman away, stop calling it climate change. You changed what you fools call it, but not what you mean by it.
Global warming models have been proven wrong. We were all supposed to be creating floating cities by this point in time if early 2000 models were to be believed.
They were wrong then and they’re wrong now because they all are trying to correlate changes in climate SOLELY with C02 emissions. Might c02 have some impact, yea of course. But its not even the worst cause of green house effect. Water vapor has a much higher green house effect on a lbs per lbs basis. Then you have numerous other factors that cause substantial changes in earths climate throughout time.... yes, even before co2 emissions were a thing.
But Al Gore cant get rich of cap and trade of water vapor. So they tried pinning it on c02.
Weathermen cant predict whether or not its going to rain in 10 minutes, but somehow you want those of us with a brain to buy that scientists hsve determined exact cause and modality for all changes in our planets climate over any signicant time frame.
Get real about studying the climate, and its numerous influencers. Then we can talk.
Take your strawman away, stop calling it climate change. You changed what you fools call it, but not what you mean by it.
Global warming models have been proven wrong. We were all supposed to be creating floating cities by this point in time if early 2000 models were to be believed.
They were wrong then and they’re wrong now because they all are trying to correlate changes in climate SOLELY with C02 emissions. Might c02 have some impact, yea of course. But its not even the worst cause of green house effect. Water vapor has a much higher green house effect on a lbs per lbs basis. Then you have numerous other factors that cause substantial changes in earths climate throughout time.... yes, even before co2 emissions were a thing.
But Al Gore cant get rich of cap and trade of water vapor. So they tried pinning it on c02.
Weathermen cant predict whether or not its going to rain in 10 minutes, but somehow you want those of us with a brain to buy that scientists hsve determined exact cause and modality for all changes in our planets climate over any signicant time frame.
Get real about studying the climate, and its numerous influencers. Then we can talk.
This post was edited on 3/7/18 at 12:58 pm
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:53 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
There's nothing better when people with zero understanding of the actual thermodynamic and heat transfer processes parrot "scientits" and claim to be scientific themselves.
It's a sad attempt to be smart by proxy.
Using Pman's logic, if he were in a debate with an actual MIT educated Climate scientist who questioned the accepted dogma and presented his arguments, Pman would simply respond by saying, "more agree with me......I win!!!".
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:53 pm to Jay Quest
quote:
China, India and other emerging nations are not going to cease their efforts to gain an economic foothold in the global market by adhering to environmental guidelines that limit their economic growth.
Maybe we shouldn't be looking to China and India for a blueprint on how to handle our own environmental issues?
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:54 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Using Pman's logic, if he were in a debate with an actual MIT educated Climate scientist who questioned the accepted dogma and presented his arguments, Pman would simply respond by saying, "more agree with me......I win!!!".
I wouldn't engage in such a debate because it is not an area of expertise
But keep telling me why it's stupid to believe the majority of scientists as opposed to believing the minority on the matter.
You still haven't explained that logic. You've just called me stupid. And have offered little substance.
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:55 pm to 1MileTiger
quote:
Simple, a Colorado ski slope just shut down due to lack of snow this season, and all of the left are screaming Climate Change.
Meanwhile, when ski slopes hit record snow pack a couple of years back, all of the left were screaming NOT Climate Change.
Don't confuse temperature with precipitation. Sometimes you can have more snow at 29 degrees than you can at 0 degrees.
Indeed, higher precipitation rates have been predicted by global warming proponents due to warmer air being able to hold more water.
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:55 pm to Powerman
quote:
I just find it surprising that you would think I'm "embarrassing myself" by claiming that ExxonMobil and Koch industries have funneled money into climate denying organizations.
I think it's funny how you pretend not to understand conversations as they take place.
I mean, given that I've already not only accepted that conservative funded research occurs but that the fact that it's the only avenue for certain study is a problem....quite obviously, your assumptions regarding what you responded to were wrong.
Well. Let's be honest here. They weren't wrong. You're simply shifting to maintain argument because that's your shtick.
quote:You see. Pretending I didn't know something that I literally already talked about earlier in the thread demonstrates you to be a hack.
I thought this was well known. And honestly surprised that you didn't know it.
Do you deny that they did this?
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:57 pm to Powerman
quote:
I think you know the answer to that question but are not interested in having an honest discussion
It appears that the scientist applied the standard of those who deny or distort climate science. "Distort" seems rather vague and open to different interpretations.
I don't see a clearer reference but I am on mobile so it's not easy to read.
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:57 pm to Powerman
quote:
I wouldn't engage in such a debate because it is not an area of expertise
Exactly.
quote:
But keep telling me why it's stupid to believe the majority of scientists as opposed to believing the minority on the matter.
I didn't say it was stupid. Try and keep up.
quote:Actually, I'm reasonably certain you're the one who labeled people who disagree with those you agree with(note the phrasing there) to be dullards.
You still haven't explained that logic. You've just called me stupid. And have offered little substance.
I simply have pointed out you don't possess any knowledge on the subject beyond our ability to count.
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:57 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
I mean, given that I've already not only accepted that conservative funded research occurs
Climate change denial research is not "conservative" and your implication that it is is an insult to conservatives.
quote:
but that the fact that it's the only avenue for certain study is a problem..
The fact that you believe this is more of a problem
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