- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Viktor Orban / Donald Trump - compare / contrast
Posted on 4/2/20 at 10:46 am to TigerDoc
Posted on 4/2/20 at 10:46 am to TigerDoc
quote:
Autocracies end up governing poorly because their incentives are aligned with serving elites and not with usual needs voters. When the autocrats inevitably fail at producing the outcomes that they're looking for in their leaders, they start alternative narratives about why the things are failing (Jews, subversives, etc.) Orban's all over this stuff.
Would you say the same in regards to the EU or communist/socialist goverments? Because you just described them perfectly.
This post was edited on 4/2/20 at 10:57 am
1
Posted on 4/2/20 at 10:50 am to TailbackU
Orban is a P.I.M.P.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 10:51 am to TailbackU
Along this line of thought, I recently watched this Victor Davis Hanson speech called: George Patton: American Ajax
Basically he talks about the dilemma that civilized societies face when the uncivilized world comes knocking and how they have trouble justifying their own descent into being horrible in order to fight terrible things.
Basically he talks about the dilemma that civilized societies face when the uncivilized world comes knocking and how they have trouble justifying their own descent into being horrible in order to fight terrible things.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 10:51 am to AU86
No I would not. The EU has free elections, a free press, and isn't purging its curriculum of mid-century authors who wrote sympathetically of the Hungarian people's suffering from fascism in favor of anti-semitic & fascist-sympathizing authors.
Hungary has become gross, dude.
Hungary has become gross, dude.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 10:54 am to TailbackU
quote:
So are you saying that that has contributed to Orban subverting his own parliament to seize power? Serious question.
The manner in which the EU has come about is absolutely a reason for radicalizing those with nationalistic tendencies. What was once supposed to be an economic partnership has turned into a federation of Soviet states, wherein Brussels has the ability to dictate domestic policy on a wide array of issues to countries like Hungary.
There is a reason the Dutch and French people voted against a European Constitution (by significant margins) in 2005. There is a reason the UK left the EU and why the Tories now hold a supermajority in Parliament. This will not stop at Brexit either.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 10:56 am to SCLibertarian
Why aren't nations rushing out the door? It's been 4 years.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 11:01 am to TigerDoc
quote:
The EU has free elections,
Bullcrap. The EU is ruled by unelected beaurocrats. I noticed you didn't mention socialist/communist regimes.
What is Orbans approval rating now among the Hungarian people? They seem to like him alot.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 11:05 am to TigerDoc
quote:
The EU has . . . . a free press
Not really.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 11:05 am to AU86
Nigel Farage wasn't elected to the European Parliament?
Stop clowning.
They like Orban because he is massively subsidized by the EU while gets to hammer away at them rhetorically. It's good politics as long as Hungary stays in.
Stop clowning.
They like Orban because he is massively subsidized by the EU while gets to hammer away at them rhetorically. It's good politics as long as Hungary stays in.
This post was edited on 4/2/20 at 11:06 am
Posted on 4/2/20 at 11:07 am to TigerDoc
quote:
Why aren't nations rushing out the door?
Because political parties within European nation-states are even less responsive to their constituencies than we are here. Look at the UK. The Labour Party opposed Brexit, but their strongholds in Northern England voted to Leave and by a wide margin. There were seats won by Tories in the most recent election that they have never won in hundreds of years. And this doesn't even take into account the dysfunctional situations in countries like Italy, Spain and Belgium, where they can't even form coalition governments.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 11:08 am to TailbackU
My (lazy) understand of Hungary is that Orban has far fewer checks on his power than Trump has (structure of their government, weaker / divided opposing parties, less confrontational media adversaries). He also has a healthier support of his electorate than Trump has (65% or so of Hungarians openly support his strong border measures and nationalist policies, whereas Trump only has about 45% support - a plurality but not a clear majority).
Trump has so many constraints and hoops to jump through that Hungary, Croatia, and Poland do not.
My opinion could be outdated or flat out incorrect - interested in hearing what more informed folks think.
Trump has so many constraints and hoops to jump through that Hungary, Croatia, and Poland do not.
My opinion could be outdated or flat out incorrect - interested in hearing what more informed folks think.
This post was edited on 4/2/20 at 11:09 am
Posted on 4/2/20 at 11:16 am to SCLibertarian
Fair enough. The reason those governments aren't yielding to nationalistic passions is that a nationalistic Europe is a bloodbath (and will be again). There are just few people alive now who've seen it with their own eyes.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 11:25 am to TigerDoc
The European parliament is limited in regards to the overall power of the EU. Power originates in the unelected commissioners and committe members. That is the true ruling body. There were also "elected" members of the Supreme Soviet but did they have any real power?Germany has dominated the EU for years and used it for its own national gain. Why do you think Britain left? Just ask Nigel Farage what he thinks of the "democracy" of the EU?
The EU is exactly what sclibertarian said it is.
The EU is exactly what sclibertarian said it is.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 11:26 am to TailbackU
how about a downvote instead, for being a douche?
Posted on 4/2/20 at 11:32 am to TrueTiger
quote:
Basically he talks about the dilemma that civilized societies face when the uncivilized world comes knocking and how they have trouble justifying their own descent into being horrible in order to fight terrible things.
This would be a more interesting discussion that the agenda driven trolling from the OP with further flame fanning from our resident liberals
Posted on 4/2/20 at 11:39 am to AU86
So would you be in favor of a more democratic European body?
I would.
I would.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 11:46 am to 93and99
quote:
Liberal who sucks at the teat of the taxpayer because he was a failure in life
Right on cue, clown. You can't hold a discussion because you are a reactionary trope quoting arse clown. Do you own your own business? Are you responsible for employees and their families? 'Cause I am. Now go back to thinking what you've been told to think at the kids' tables and let the adults talk.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 11:56 am to SirWinston
quote:
My opinion could be outdated or flat out incorrect - interested in hearing what more informed folks think.
Well I got curious… I read through almost the entire Hungarian constitution. Couple interesting things...,there is a clause in Art.9 that allows the president to "dissolve parliment". Not sure what that means in their context.
In Orban's current seizure of power, it seems that the "Minister of Justice" which is a cabinet position (closest we have might be Atty Gen.) seems to have subverted parliament rules to bring a bill to extend the "state of emergency" on Mar. 30th and Orban's Fidesz party, because it has a 2/3 majority, voted to enact it. He has taken full advantage of that power. That's what I've been able to glean in a couple hours of intense reading. Like you said, Orban hoops to jump through are made easier by the Parliment, but Trump is using a lot of similar rhetorical tactics.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 12:02 pm to TigerDoc
Yes. If that is what the people of Europe want. If the EU could be reformed, which I seriously doubt. Many leaders are for staying in the EU but trying to reform it. I wish them well.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 12:03 pm to TailbackU
quote:
Right on cue, clown. You can't hold a discussion because you are a reactionary trope quoting arse clown. Do you own your own business? Are you responsible for employees and their families? 'Cause I am. Now go back to thinking what you've been told to think at the kids' tables and let the adults talk.
Liar
Page 2 of 3
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News