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Started By
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re: Unanimous Juries- How ya votin and why?
Posted on 10/26/18 at 11:08 pm to LSURussian
Posted on 10/26/18 at 11:08 pm to LSURussian
Most of my friends are attorneys, and I’ve never heard them say anything like that. Sounds like you need better friends.
And while it hasn’t been mentioned much in this thread, I heavily emphasized in the last thread that all verdicts would have to be unanimous, including not guilty verdicts. The retried case I just cited came back 10-2 not guilty. I think the two holdouts likely would have come around, but who knows. Maybe they caught something the other jurors didn’t. But, there was no reason for anyone to listen to them.
And while it hasn’t been mentioned much in this thread, I heavily emphasized in the last thread that all verdicts would have to be unanimous, including not guilty verdicts. The retried case I just cited came back 10-2 not guilty. I think the two holdouts likely would have come around, but who knows. Maybe they caught something the other jurors didn’t. But, there was no reason for anyone to listen to them.
1
Posted on 10/26/18 at 11:12 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
Most of my friends are attorneys,
quote:You, too.
Sounds like you need better friends.
Posted on 10/26/18 at 11:12 pm to LSURussian
quote:
It’s not speculation. It’s years of real world experience including hearing my lawyer friends laugh about how they screwed some poor schmuck who thought they were looking out for him.
Considering your accounts of their remarks are hearsay, I'm not gonna render an opinion on them individually but assuming they're true, thats not representative of the legal profession at-large particularly the good attorneys who live honest lives, those I have encountered never talk about "screwing" people out of money, they talk billing to some degree but it is a business like everything on this Earth is so you realistically cannot avoid talking about it to a degree.
Posted on 10/26/18 at 11:14 pm to LSURussian
quote:
You, too.
Some of the best people I’ve ever met. Take their jobs and their clients very seriously, too.
Posted on 10/26/18 at 11:19 pm to ILeaveAtHalftime
quote:
That’s an idiotic viewpoint. Moderates and those on the fence sitting out is exactly why every issue in this state and country has become a screaming match between the most passionate 5% on each side.
It’s your civic duty to educate yourself, formulate an opinion, and vote. Do it.
I upvoted you. You're right. I guess it is kind of a cop-out. I just feel like if somebody doesn't have a strong opinion about something or they're not educated on the topic they shouldn't frick up the vote with their shity, ill-informed opinions.
I guess in this instance I'm just completely torn and really can't make a decision one way or the other
Posted on 10/26/18 at 11:20 pm to ThePTExperience1969
quote:Both of them?
the good attorneys who live honest lives,
Two drunks are walking through a cemetery. They come upon a headstone that says, “Here Rests A Lawyer And An Honest Man”.
One drunk turns to the other drunk and says, “Look at that! They’re burying them two persons to a hole now!”
Posted on 10/26/18 at 11:23 pm to LSURussian
The more I listen to Russian, the more it sounds like early Boomers were/are just shitty people 
Posted on 10/26/18 at 11:25 pm to Joshjrn
quote:Which makes it such a shame that 99% of all lawyers give the other 1% a bad image....
Some of the best people I’ve ever met.
Posted on 10/26/18 at 11:27 pm to Joshjrn
You’re still protesting too much as well as still compensating your inadequacy by overusing .
.Posted on 10/26/18 at 11:30 pm to LSURussian
I have to agree with you. Lawyers are the root of most of America’s problems. That’s why our government is so corrupt. Most politicians are lawyers. If we strung every one of them up and didn’t leave a single lawyer left alive, most of our problems would disappear in a couple years. There is no other profession that exist that champions cheating, lying and dishonesty like lawyers. These rotten bastards would, and have, gotten child rapists that they knew were guilty as sin off the hook. They get people that murder old ladies off on technicalities. They help evict single mothers and steal retired vets life savings with a twinkle in their eye. There is a reason the movie “ Devil’s Advocate” was based on lawyers, because they are evil at heart. Maybe not all but only one in a thousand are worth the air they breathe.
Posted on 10/26/18 at 11:38 pm to LSURussian
quote:
You’re still protesting too much as well as still compensating your inadequacy by overusing .
Well, after you’ve been so impressively wrong on this thread, I guess attempts at psychology and bad lawyers jokes are all you’ve got. How’s that NO DA support assertion going for you, by the way?
Posted on 10/26/18 at 11:39 pm to Wtxtiger
quote:
Wtxtiger
You motherfrickers are insane
Posted on 10/26/18 at 11:42 pm to Wtxtiger
quote:
I have to agree with you. Lawyers are the root of most of America’s problems. That’s why our government is so corrupt. Most politicians are lawyers. If we strung every one of them up and didn’t leave a single lawyer left alive, most of our problems would disappear in a couple years. There is no other profession that exist that champions cheating, lying and dishonesty like lawyers. These rotten bastards would, and have, gotten child rapists that they knew were guilty as sin off the hook. They get people that murder old ladies off on technicalities. They help evict single mothers and steal retired vets life savings with a twinkle in their eye. There is a reason the movie “ Devil’s Advocate” was based on lawyers, because they are evil at heart. Maybe not all but only one in a thousand are worth the air they breathe.
You know Thomas Jefferson was a lawyer right? St. Thomas More? Our Vice President? Ben Shapiro? Antonin Scalia? William Howard Taft? Abraham Lincoln? Byron White? Oliver Wendell Holmes? Calvin Coolidge (next to Trump, JFK, Nixon and Reagan, the best US President of all-time in my estimation)? Lindsey Graham?You're basically lumping the ethical good lawyers in with scoundrels with what you're saying which is so unjust and so incorrect, not all lawyers are created equal.
Posted on 10/27/18 at 12:07 am to ThePTExperience1969
quote:
ThePTExperience1969
This dude writes like he has a learning disability. I believe we have a troll.
Posted on 10/27/18 at 5:32 am to ThePTExperience1969
quote:
next to Trump, JFK, Nixon and Reagan, the best US President of all-time in my estimation)
Holy shite you are putting the criminal who is now in the White House among our country's greatest Presidents??
Well, you do have the impeached Nixon in there too, so I guess you like Presidents who get impeached. Trump's turn will be coming for that.
Posted on 10/27/18 at 7:57 am to ThePTExperience1969
quote:No, he does not.
Dude do you even sit back and acknowledge the absurdity of the arguments you make from a philosophical level?
Posted on 10/27/18 at 8:00 am to The Johnny Lawrence
I think 10/12 non unanimous juries are fine. There will always be idiots on a jury who don’t know what they’re doing.
Posted on 10/27/18 at 8:23 am to Parmen
What if there are like 10 fools and that 1-2 are the ones actually not falling victim to group think around an answer that’s too simple. no real deliberation is required because threshold was met fast and without much push back...
I know we have several here that reference a crazy hold out but what if you later found out they were right?
The process will never be perfect either way but boy do I prefer letting guilty walk over convicting innocent
I know we have several here that reference a crazy hold out but what if you later found out they were right?
The process will never be perfect either way but boy do I prefer letting guilty walk over convicting innocent
Posted on 10/27/18 at 8:27 am to SCLibertarian
I will almost always vote to limit the power of the state. Taking someone’s freedoms away should require the highest of thresholds to be cleared. Unanimous jury is an excellent check against the state.
Posted on 10/27/18 at 8:42 am to SCLibertarian
quote:
How non-unanimous juries in criminal trials survive constitutional scrutiny is beyond me. The presence of 1 or 2 jurors out of 12 who vote not guilty seems to be the definition of reasonable doubt.
This thread is long but let me clarify something as I do it often on this subject. The jurors are not necessarily voting "not guilty".
For example, the defendant is charged with Murder 2, but in LA there are lesser included offense the jury can find, such as Manslaughter and Negligent Homicide.
For example, the jury I was on was a murder 2 trial. We voted 10-2 to convict on Murder 2. The two holdouts were solid on Manslaughter. No one thought he didn't do it or the burden wasn't met that he was culpable killing her.
Also, they didn't really understand manslaughter either because simply fighting someone verbally or whatever doesn't meet the standard (because then most murders would be Manslaughter
). Anyways, as foreman I didn't need them to convict for Murder 2 so we got out of there. So while unanimous juries should probably be the standard, you shouldn't let some of the news articles sway you into believing these are 'not guilty" holdouts. Many would have eventually been unanimous verdicts for the charge sought.
This post was edited on 10/27/18 at 8:44 am
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