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re: Ukraine Crisis: What you're not being told
Posted on 3/13/14 at 11:07 pm to trackfan
Posted on 3/13/14 at 11:07 pm to trackfan
quote:
I think there is a tendency in the U.S. to assume that if Russia, China or Iran are for it, then we must be against it. When the U.S.S.R. invaded Afghanistan, we supported the Afghans under the assumption that nothing can be worse than the Soviets. On 9/11, we found out that this assumption was wrong. In Syria, this mindset led us to supporting Al Qaeda types who were sworn enemies of the U.S. that were worse than Assad, Iran and Hezbollah. Perhaps our hysteria over Ukraine is example of Putinphobia blinding us to what's in our best interest.
Well said, I'm glad you're an awake citizen.
1
Posted on 3/13/14 at 11:13 pm to Sleeping Tiger
I have a few questions.
I'm not saying that what you claim isn't true. False flag operations are very strong motivators, but that interview really tells me nothing.
quote:What is the evidence that shows this? Did they find the gun? Were the striations on the bullets identical? What is stated there is a very general statement that doesn't say much.
Urmas Paet: "All the evidence shows that the people who were killed by snipers from both sides, among police men and people in the street, that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides."
quote:I would question this individual's credentials. The medical profession is not qualified to determine the authenticity of a signature or handwriting. Does this doctor have prior training in that area?
Urmas Paet: "And she also showed me some photos and she said that has medical doctor, she can say that it is the same handwriting..."
quote:This statement here doesn't offer much evidence. The fact that the same type of bullet was used in the shooting of individuals on both sides is not really supportive evidence. That is like saying that the shooting death of 10 people is linked because they were all shot with 9 mms.
Urmas Paet: "Same type of bullets...
I'm not saying that what you claim isn't true. False flag operations are very strong motivators, but that interview really tells me nothing.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 11:20 pm to Scruffy
Ex Ukraine Security Chief confirms the shots came from an opposition controlled building. LINK
Former chief of Ukraine’s Security Service has confirmed allegations that snipers who killed dozens of people during the violent unrest in Kiev operated from a building controlled by the opposition on Maidan square.
One of the newer articles on the matter LINK
"Everyone knows who did this, they're just staying silent for now," said Mykola Prokhorov, a sullen 25-year-old "self-defence" security guard who patrols the protest camp in the capital.
Former chief of Ukraine’s Security Service has confirmed allegations that snipers who killed dozens of people during the violent unrest in Kiev operated from a building controlled by the opposition on Maidan square.
One of the newer articles on the matter LINK
"Everyone knows who did this, they're just staying silent for now," said Mykola Prokhorov, a sullen 25-year-old "self-defence" security guard who patrols the protest camp in the capital.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 11:26 pm to fleaux
quote:
Who uses cilantro in pesto , anyway??
That would taste pretty crappy on pasta. However I have made cilantro salsa (kind of like a pesto but with cilantro) to lightly drip on fajitas. Pretty good.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 11:29 pm to Sleeping Tiger
I would not be surprised if it did happen that way, though, and we are definitely helping them to screw over Russia.
Like I said, false flags operations are great motivators. Nothing bolsters a revolution like dead civilians killed by the opposition. The problem is always finding sufficient evidence to prove it.
It doesn't really change my position on how we should be acting though. I don't want us to be involved at all.
Like I said, false flags operations are great motivators. Nothing bolsters a revolution like dead civilians killed by the opposition. The problem is always finding sufficient evidence to prove it.
It doesn't really change my position on how we should be acting though. I don't want us to be involved at all.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 11:31 pm to Sleeping Tiger
trackfan has been spot on in her foreign policy analysis lately, IMO.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 11:33 pm to GumboPot
Is trackfan a chick? I feel like I should know this by now.
I've probably asked before too.
I've probably asked before too.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 11:35 pm to Sleeping Tiger
Hey, what happened to your thread on the Help board? After my helpful point about the Mongolians, I didn't get a chance to check back, and the thread was deleted.
:nilloC:
You and the tool brigade are actually right about the fact that some of the rebel factions are total pieces of shite, but the media has reported that fact. It's not being swept under the rug. There really isn't much we can do about it. The ousted govt. was pro-Russian reunification, and I really don't expect the fringe whackos to dominate the outcome. To say that they are the "leading" faction is dishonest.
Long story short - they aren't becoming the next Nazis and would you really be scared if they did?
:nilloC:
You and the tool brigade are actually right about the fact that some of the rebel factions are total pieces of shite, but the media has reported that fact. It's not being swept under the rug. There really isn't much we can do about it. The ousted govt. was pro-Russian reunification, and I really don't expect the fringe whackos to dominate the outcome. To say that they are the "leading" faction is dishonest.
Long story short - they aren't becoming the next Nazis and would you really be scared if they did?
Posted on 3/13/14 at 11:36 pm to Sleeping Tiger
I been hearing the same facts.
Self autonomy is what the goal should be.
Self autonomy is what the goal should be.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 11:36 pm to Scruffy
Maybe I'm making a little bit of a leap here but for some reason I envision trackfan as a mother of a college track athlete.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 11:37 pm to Sleeping Tiger
quote:You don't sound empathetic
The American and European public are being misled on the Ukraine Crisis.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 11:41 pm to trackfan
quote:
When the U.S.S.R. invaded Afghanistan, we supported the Afghans under the assumption that nothing can be worse than the Soviets.
That's not really true we supported the Afghans because we didn't want communism to spread and we figured tying the Russians up in a bloody war would stave off the spread of communism and speed the USSR's decline...which it did.
quote:
In Syria, this mindset led us to supporting Al Qaeda types who were sworn enemies of the U.S. that were worse than Assad, Iran and Hezbollah.
Well that was your boy Obama who backed Al Qaeda and has a pretty strong reputation of backing the wrong side in most conflicts lately.
He also decided to back the over throw of a pro-western leader in Egypt which blew up in his face...twice.
For someone who is always accusing others of being on the wrong side of history he seems to find himself there more than others.
This post was edited on 3/13/14 at 11:44 pm
Posted on 3/13/14 at 11:44 pm to Sleeping Tiger
quote:So the ousted government is claiming the rebels are the bad guys? The fricking hell you say.
Ex Ukraine Security Chief confirms the shots came from an opposition controlled building. LINK
Former chief of Ukraine’s Security Service has confirmed allegations that snipers who killed dozens of people during the violent unrest in Kiev operated from a building controlled by the opposition on Maidan square.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 11:48 pm to blueboy
quote:
So the ousted government is claiming the rebels are the bad guys?
Yeah why would the guys who lost power and are now hiding in Russia lie about the people who forced them out. just crazy!
Posted on 3/13/14 at 11:49 pm to Navtiger1
quote:
That's not really true we supported the Afghans because we didn't want communism to spread and we figured tying the Russians up in a bloody war would stave off the spread of communism and speed the USSR's decline...which it did.
That wasn't about the communist boogyman, that was about pipelines, oil, and currency.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 11:49 pm to blueboy
quote:
So the ousted government is claiming the rebels are the bad guys? The fricking hell you say.
Maybe read the OP? For a start..
Posted on 3/13/14 at 11:50 pm to Sleeping Tiger
quote:
that was about pipelines, oil, and currency
What?
Posted on 3/13/14 at 11:51 pm to Navtiger1
quote:
That's not really true we supported the Afghans because we didn't want communism to spread and we figured tying the Russians up in a bloody war would stave off the spread of communism and spread the USSR's decline...which it did.
We would have been better off letting Russia take Afghanistan. At least then we wouldn't have gotten tied down in a the longest war in U.S. history because 9/11 would have never happened.
quote:
Well that was your boy Obama who backed Al Qaeda and has a pretty strong reputation of backing the wrong side in most conflicts lately.
He also decided to back the over throw of a pro-western leader in Egypt which blew up in his face...twice.
For someone who is always accusing others of being on the wrong side of history he seems to find himself there more than others.
My opinion on Obama and the Syria conflict has been pretty well established on many threads on this board. Unlike you, who only supported W invading Iraq and making it an Iranian client state because he had an R behind his name, party affiliation has no bearing on my opinions when it comes to foreign policy.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 11:58 pm to trackfan
quote:
At least then we wouldn't have gotten tied down in a the longest war in U.S. history because 9/11 would have never happened.
This is impossible to prove. Seeing as how the 9/11 hijackers were not Afghans and Afghanistan was not an Al-Qaida state but rather were being supported and hidden by the Taliban. They could have done the same from someplace else.
quote:
Unlike you, who only supported W invading Iraq and making it an Iranian client state because he had an R behind his name
Don't recall saying anything about any alphabet R or W's. I also never said i supported the invasion of Iraq. I just know you are a diehard staunch supporter of Obama. I have said many times that Bush was an idiot and i hated many of his policies. The PATRIOT ACT is one of the worst pieces of reactionary legislation ever passed.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 11:59 pm to Sleeping Tiger
Can you really blame the Ukrainians and Cossacks, or any Slav demographic for that matter, for being anti-Semitic after what Lazarus Kaganovich's team of genocidal maniacs did to 7 million Ukrainians during Holodomor?
Holodomor is a genocidal atrocity that never received half the publicity as that of the other atrocity that starts with the letter H.
Holodomor is a genocidal atrocity that never received half the publicity as that of the other atrocity that starts with the letter H.
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