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Message
re: UK report shows almost 2/3 of Delta deaths were vaccinated
Posted on 8/25/21 at 6:36 pm to College Inn
Posted on 8/25/21 at 6:36 pm to College Inn
quote:
Seems like global cooling and global warming are only buzzowrds for free money gimmie gimmie
HOW DARE YOU!!!!!!!!!!
1
Posted on 8/25/21 at 6:37 pm to oklahogjr
quote:This is why us normal people hate the left and what they’ve done with seemingly normal people like shel and Dawg.
So you don't think trump is right about the vaccine? Why do you think he continues pushing it with studies like this out there?
Any rational person left of center would be up in arms at what their representatives have done to us all.
Yet, we get this retarded post from people like gjr and silence from people like shel and Dawg.
Posted on 8/25/21 at 6:39 pm to rsbd
quote:
HOW DARE YOU!!!!!!!!!!
I would never call into question the people that told us we would already freeze to death and now say we are going to burn to death
They are experts
They have a science lable
How much more can you ask for from experts?
Completely fricking wrong is good enough. Wear a mask.
Posted on 8/25/21 at 6:43 pm to Landmass
Can you really not interpret data better than that? You are correct that more fully vaccinated people have died vs unvaccinated people. There is a caveat to that though. The big difference is in the over 50 age group. There are 21,472 over 50 that are fully vaccinated. 389 have died. That is a 1.8% death rate. There are 3,440 over 50 that are unvaccinated with 205 dead. That is a 5.9% death rate or over 200% higher.
I fail to see how this shows being vaccinated is worse.
I fail to see how this shows being vaccinated is worse.
Posted on 8/25/21 at 6:46 pm to stuntman
quote:
Little help here;
Deaths within 28 days of positive specimen date; Received 2 doses- 389. Unvaccinated- 205.
What am I missing here? Legit asking.
The numbers are skewed because there is a large percent of older patients who are vaccinated. It's probably hard to say too much since the numbers start in Feb when the percent vaccinated was very low, but here's what I get from the numbers.
If you just look at the number over 50 who caught delta Covid, you have 21472 vax and 3440 unvax with death at 389/205. With those numbers you get a risk of death at 1.8% for people who are vax'd IF they test positive, and 5.9% for the unvax'd.
For the under 50 you have 25536 vax and 147612 unvax with death at 13/48. In this group the risk of death for those testing positive is .05% for the vax'd and .03% for the unvax'd.
This doesn't really say much as far as how effective the vax is from preventing you from catching Covid, but IF you do catch it, it looks like this risk of death is roughly triple for the unvax'd over 50 and half for the unvax'd under 50.
Posted on 8/25/21 at 6:48 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
So you don't think trump is right about the vaccine?
This has nothing to do with Trump. Stop being a dick and deal with the data.
Posted on 8/25/21 at 6:52 pm to Landmass
quote:
Look at the bottom line.
Let's break it down by age (2 lines above the last line)
deaths/total
<50:
Vax: 23/118,137=.023%
Unvax: 48/147,612=.032%
Not a big difference, slight edge to the vax group
>50
Vax: 465/30,296=1.53%
Unvax: 205/3,440 =5.95%
Well frick me running, looks like the unvax were 4x more likely to die than the vax in this age group. That can't be right.
Any math experts care to check my math or point out the flaw in this breakdown?
Posted on 8/25/21 at 6:54 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
So you don't think trump is right about the vaccine?
he also built a bunch of field hospitals and ventilators. And just like the vaccine, we didn't need those either.
Posted on 8/25/21 at 7:00 pm to Landmass
Another classic example of disinformation. Take a snapshot of data and take it out of context. Then present it as fact.
#1. If you read page 19 of the actual report you will see that they report total deaths regardless of setting within 28 days of diagnosis. The author of the OP's link is the one who describes the deaths as covid deaths. Not the report.
#2. 75% of adults in the UK has received both doses of the vaccine. So there are 3x's as many vaccinated as unvaccinated ppl in the UK. If vaccinated and unvaccinated had the same mortality rate then there should have been 615 vaccinated deaths. The fact that there are less than 615 deaths in the vaccinated population that means that the mortality rate in the vaccinated population is less than the unvaccinated.
Of course vaccinated ppl will have a higher # of deaths when you take those two facts into account. Of course, conspiracy theorists never let facts and reason and the bigger picture affect their world views.
#1. If you read page 19 of the actual report you will see that they report total deaths regardless of setting within 28 days of diagnosis. The author of the OP's link is the one who describes the deaths as covid deaths. Not the report.
#2. 75% of adults in the UK has received both doses of the vaccine. So there are 3x's as many vaccinated as unvaccinated ppl in the UK. If vaccinated and unvaccinated had the same mortality rate then there should have been 615 vaccinated deaths. The fact that there are less than 615 deaths in the vaccinated population that means that the mortality rate in the vaccinated population is less than the unvaccinated.
Of course vaccinated ppl will have a higher # of deaths when you take those two facts into account. Of course, conspiracy theorists never let facts and reason and the bigger picture affect their world views.
Posted on 8/25/21 at 7:08 pm to Pisgah Pete
LOL... what?
It looks like the vaccinated are going to the hospital in greater numbers >50.
It looks like the vaccinated are going to the hospital in greater numbers >50.
Posted on 8/25/21 at 7:11 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
So you don't think trump is right about the vaccine?
oklahogjr, like most leftists, can not grasp the concept of not agreeing / not towing the line 100%. This is how their brain operates.
Posted on 8/25/21 at 7:11 pm to Pisgah Pete
quote:
Let's break it down by age
Let's also break it down by risk factor, why don't we? That age group is also less likely to survive blood clotting, rapid blood pressure swings, brain and spinal cord swelling, lowered blood platelets, myocarditis and pericarditis too. All things that now have known associations with the recently vaxxed. This is a hill that you don't want to be on, when the dying time comes.
So why are the older vaxxed dying more so than the unvaxxed? Complications from the shot? Cause it aint the CoVID, or the unvaxxed at that age would be harder hit?
Posted on 8/25/21 at 7:15 pm to WeeWee
quote:
The author of the OP's link is the one who describes the deaths as covid deaths. Not the report.
So you want to draw attention to it likely being the vaccine that is killing them, not the virus?
Are you sure that is the point you want to make?
Posted on 8/25/21 at 7:16 pm to Landmass
The only thing here is the greater than 50 years old was at 21k vs a much smaller sample on unvaced. I’m not a Val pusher but if all else equal this would likely tell a different story.
Posted on 8/25/21 at 7:17 pm to Landmass
Sounds like they should stop taking the Astrazenica vaccine. Fortunately that isn't used here.
Posted on 8/25/21 at 7:22 pm to WeeWee
quote:
Another classic example of disinformation. Take a snapshot of data and take it out of context. Then present it as fact.
It had all of the information in the table.
quote:
#1. If you read page 19 of the actual report you will see that they report total deaths regardless of setting within 28 days of diagnosis. The author of the OP's link is the one who describes the deaths as covid deaths. Not the report.
Page 19 is in the OP. But let's place the foot notes here:
quote:
Data sources: Emergency care attendance and admissions from ECDS, deaths from PHE daily death data series (deaths within 28 days). NHS trusts are required to submit emergency care attendances by the 21st of each month. As a result, the number of cases with attendances may show substantial increases in technical briefs prepared after the monthly cut-off, compared with other briefs from the same month.
¥ Cases without specimen dates and unlinked sequences (sequenced samples that could not be matched to individuals) are excluded from this table.
* Cases are assessed for any emergency care attendance within 28 days of their positive specimen date. Cases still undergoing within 28-day period may have an emergency care attendance reported at a later date.
§ At least 1 attendance or admission within 28 days of positive specimen date
# Inclusion: Including cases with the same specimen and attendance dates
‡ Exclusion: Excluding cases with the same specimen and attendance dates. Cases where specimen date is the same as date of emergency care visit are excluded to help remove cases picked up via routine testing in healthcare settings whose primary cause of attendance is not COVID-19. This underestimates the number of individuals in hospital with COVID-19 but only includes those who tested positive prior to the day of their emergency care visit. Some of the cases detected on the day of admission may have attended for a diagnosis unrelated to COVID-19.
^ Total deaths in any setting (regardless of hospitalisation status) within 28 days of positive specimen date.
** Age <50 + >50 do not total ‘all cases’ per category as some cases lack reported age data
Now where are you seeing the error of what people are reading. Highlight the words.
quote:
#2. 75% of adults in the UK has received both doses of the vaccine. So there are 3x's as many vaccinated as unvaccinated ppl in the UK. If vaccinated and unvaccinated had the same mortality rate then there should have been 615 vaccinated deaths. The fact that there are less than 615 deaths in the vaccinated population that means that the mortality rate in the vaccinated population is less than the unvaccinated.
No no. You leave out the room for cases that are at more risk regardless of their vaccination status.
You are literally talking the difference of 126 deaths (if you are being strict and saying there can be no variables).
None of that explains why there were almost 10 times more cases in the >50 vaccinate age group than the non vaccinated.
None of it helps the cause of we can vaccinate our way out of this.
Posted on 8/25/21 at 7:23 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
So you don't think trump is right about the vaccine?
I want to say Trump encouraged everyone to get it, but he didn’t think they should be forced to.
Posted on 8/25/21 at 8:08 pm to Ole Colonel 27
quote:
The only thing here is the greater than 50 years old was at 21k vs a much smaller sample on unvaced
No it's not. They tracked the cases from Feb to Aug. These are the cases. They did not do a small sample. The sample size were the cases from Feb to Aug... that total was 300K. It is what is is. They state that on page:
From page 11 of the report:
Tables 4 and 5 show the number of cases who visited an NHS Emergency Department, were admitted, and died in any setting. The data is shown from 1 February 2021 onwards
Posted on 8/25/21 at 8:23 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
Page 19 is in the OP. But let's place the foot notes here:
The footnotes are important because they help explain what the data in the tables means. The footnotes are not in the OP. The OP I am assuming took his photo from the article in which the author of the article cuts out the footnotes. Why does the author cut our the footnotes. Does the author not want people to see that the tables reporting total deaths regardless of setting within 28 days of a positive PCR test and mortality rate or some other metric that takes the population size into account (i.e. mortality rate).
quote:
Now where are you seeing the error of what people are reading.
It is the way the data is being portrayed to the readers that is wrong. The author of the article and the OP are trying to present the data to make the 402 vaccinated deaths look worse than 253 unvaccinated deaths. 402 deaths would be worse than 253 deaths if the subpopulation those deaths came from were similar, but the subpopulations are not similar. There are roughly 50 million adults in the UK. Approximately 75% of those 50 million people have been vaccinated. That means are approximately 37,500,000 vaccinated adults in the UK. That also means there are approximately 12,500,000 unvaccinated adults in the UK. If you look at the mortality rate for each subpopulation you will see that the mortality rate for vaccinated adults in the UK is approximately 1.072 per 100,000. The mortality rate for unvaccinated adults in the UK is approximately 2.024 per 100,000. When the appropriate metric is used you see that deaths in the unvaccinated population is worse than the vaccinated population which is the exact opposite of the impression that the author of the disinformation article and the OP are trying to portray.
quote:
None of that explains why there were almost 10 times more cases in the >50 vaccinate age group than the non vaccinated.
A much larger population and population dynamics that are more prone to contracting diseases.
quote:
None of it helps the cause of we can vaccinate our way out of this.
I just showed you how the mortality rate of vaccinated adults in the UK is significantly lower than the mortality rate of unvaccinated adults in the UK. I guess I will be kind and do hospitalization rates too. The hospitalization rate among the vaccinated adults in the UK (1355/~37,500,000 X 100,000) is approximately 3.61 per 100,000. The hospitalization rate among the unvaccinated adults in the UK (2960/~12,500,000 X 100,000) is approximately 23.68 per 100,000. So as you can see vaccination cuts the mortality rate in half and reduces the hospitalization rate 6 fold.
Yes this does help show us that we can vaccinate our way out of this mess when the correct metric is used to report the data.
Posted on 8/25/21 at 8:37 pm to WeeWee
quote:no not really, the WuFlu hasn’t burned its way thru the unjabbed yet. Once that’s happened and real natural immunity kicks in we’ll have a better picture
Yes this does help show us that we can vaccinate our way out of this mess when the correct metric is used to report the data.
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