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re: Trying to stop child trafficking is now "Qanon-adjacent" and "paranoid"

Posted on 7/10/23 at 3:40 pm to
Posted by Monahans
Member since Sep 2019
2124 posts
Posted on 7/10/23 at 3:40 pm to
quote:

Please link any post in which you think I have said anything negative about THIS film (Sound of Freedom). Again, you won't find one.


See above.
Posted by VoxDawg
Glory, Glory
Member since Sep 2012
74750 posts
Posted on 7/10/23 at 3:40 pm to
quote:

The Socratic method seems to baffle some people.

Yeah, those Qanon people have never been exposed to it. What's up with that?
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 7/10/23 at 3:40 pm to
quote:

mjthe
Looking forward to the review.
Posted by mjthe
Virginia
Member since Oct 2020
6870 posts
Posted on 7/10/23 at 3:41 pm to
Thanks Hank
Posted by Monahans
Member since Sep 2019
2124 posts
Posted on 7/10/23 at 3:44 pm to
quote:

Yes, if the question is whether it is a good documentary, there are enough concerns about Ballard's veracity to think that the film is greatly embellished ... fear porn.

These concerns are what Im interested in. I'm just looking for the information that disputes the claims made in the film. I view all forms of media with suspicion and like to hear both sides arguments.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
464952 posts
Posted on 7/10/23 at 3:47 pm to
quote:

The Socratic method seems to baffle some people.

The Socratic Method was not the reference
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
293903 posts
Posted on 7/10/23 at 3:54 pm to
quote:

alem Witch Trials, meet the 21st Century.




White supremacy and trans genocide myths have you beat
This post was edited on 7/10/23 at 3:55 pm
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 7/10/23 at 3:56 pm to
quote:

The Socratic Method was not the reference
Maybe not for you. I use it here all the time, and heads explode.
Posted by mjthe
Virginia
Member since Oct 2020
6870 posts
Posted on 7/10/23 at 3:58 pm to
Hank you're not Q
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 7/10/23 at 4:00 pm to
quote:

Hank you're not Q
Posted by captdalton
Member since Feb 2021
19626 posts
Posted on 7/10/23 at 4:11 pm to
quote:

I've said it's not based on evidence that we have today. I believe the evidence and study is on my side.


Why don’t you post this study that proves that there are not child trafficking rings in existence.

And I will post a couple of clear, irrefutable examples of them.

Then readers can make their own decision on whether child trafficking exists. Whether to believe your study or their own eyes.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
293903 posts
Posted on 7/10/23 at 4:20 pm to
Denying Child trafficking is a problem is pretty funny in its own right

He wants to diminish the meaning of that movie so Badly.
Posted by captdalton
Member since Feb 2021
19626 posts
Posted on 7/10/23 at 4:23 pm to
Here. I will do my part.

Daily Mail UK - Belgian Aristocratic Trafficking Network

U.S. Attorney’s Office - Leader of Sex Trafficking Ring Sentenced to 60 Years

ABC San Francisco - Family Sentenced After Running Decades Long Trafficking Ring out of Daycare

Department of Justice - FBI Announces Results of Nationwide Trafficking Operation

Those were in the top half of the first page of search results.

Please provide us this link to that study that proves that child trafficking rings don’t really exist, the one you keep referring to. The one that says they are just rare isolated incidents. It must be one hell of a persuasive study to make you ignore all the real, credible examples of trafficking rings. We will be eagerly waiting.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
464952 posts
Posted on 7/10/23 at 4:25 pm to
quote:

Why don’t you post this study that proves that there are not child trafficking rings in existence.

You're trying to frame the argument. I'll post plenty on SRA.

An analysis of ritualistic and religion-related child abuse allegations.

That is the largest study ever done on the subject.

quote:

Only a minority of Ss (n = 803) reported encountering ritual cases, but of those, the majority believe their clients' claims. Even so, the purported evidence for the allegations, especially in cases reported by adults claiming to have suffered the abuse during childhood, is questionable. Most clients who alleged ritual abuse have been diagnosed as having multiple personality disorder or posttraumatic cases. Issues addressed include the role psychotherapists play in uncovering or helping to co-create alleged abuse experiences and the need to clarify the definition of ritualistic abuse.


NYT Article on other data

quote:

Tales of satanic ritual abuse, with well-organized cults sacrificing animals and babies and engaging in sexual perversion and cannibalism, is the stuff of tabloid television. Now the first empirical study of its actual prevalence, based on information from district attorneys, social service workers, police officials and psychotherapists, suggests that these tales are usually just that -- figments of imagination.

Athough the survey found occasional cases of lone abusers who used ritualistic trappings, it found no substantiated reports of well-organized satanic rings of people who sexually abuse children.



quote:

"Since the McMartin preschool case, there have been claims of ritualistic and sadistic child abuse in cases all over the country, and we've been concerned," said David Lloyd, director of the National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect. "The survey was to see just how well-founded these concerns are -- if these are just based on mistaken perceptions or there is some firm evidence."

The survey included 6,910 psychiatrists, psychologists and clinical social workers, and 4,655 district attorneys, police departments and social service agencies. They reported 12,264 accusations of ritual abuse that they had investigated.

The survey found that there was not a single case where there was clear corroborating evidence for the most common accusation, that there was "a well-organized intergenerational satanic cult, who sexually molested and tortured children in their homes or schools for years and committed a series of murders," Dr. Goodman said.


Satanic panic : the creation of a contemporary legend
by Victor, Jeffrey S


quote:

Again and again we are told - by journalists, police, and fundamentalists - that there exists a secret network of criminal fanatics, worshippers of Satan, who are responsible for kidnapping, human sacrifice, sexual abuse and torture of children, drug-dealing, mutilation of animals, desecration of churches and cemeteries, pornography, heavy metal lyrics, and cannibalism. This popular tale is almost entirely without foundation, but the legend continues to gather momentum, in the teeth of evidence and good sense. Networks of 'child advocates', credulous or self-serving social workers, instant-expert police officers, and unscrupulous ministers of religion help to spread the panic, along with fabricated survivors' memoirs passed off as true accounts, and irresponsible broadcast 'investigations'.


If you want perhaps the most in-depth analysis and discusssion, read the Investigator's Guide to Allegations of 'Ritual' Childhood Abuse

quote:

There are many possible alternative answers to the question of why victims are alleging things that don't seem to be true. ... I believe that there is a middle ground—a continuum of possible activity. Some of what the victims allege may be true and accurate, some may be misperceived or distorted, some may be screened or symbolic, and some may be "contaminated" or false. The problem and challenge, especially for law enforcement, is to determine which is which. This can only be done through active investigation. I believe that the majority of victims alleging "ritual" abuse are in fact victims of some form of abuse or trauma


If a non-academic work is your fancy, try Satan's Silence: Ritual Abuse and the Making of a Modern American Witch Hunt

There are more.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
464952 posts
Posted on 7/10/23 at 4:26 pm to
quote:

Please provide us this link to that study that proves that child trafficking rings don’t really exist

Why? That's not what I am arguing.

Nobody is arguing that.

I'm arguing SRA mythology does not exist.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
293903 posts
Posted on 7/10/23 at 4:30 pm to
quote:



An analysis of ritualistic and religion-related child abuse allegations.



He said Trafficking
This post was edited on 7/10/23 at 4:33 pm
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
464952 posts
Posted on 7/10/23 at 4:33 pm to
quote:

He said Trafficking

He's framing the argument. A bait and switch.

Nobody has said trafficking does not exist.
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
124829 posts
Posted on 7/10/23 at 4:33 pm to
quote:

a well-organized intergenerational satanic cult, who sexually molested and tortured children in their homes or schools for years and committed a series of murders


Lol.

I have studied whether there are left-handed, African American, professional golfers on the PGA tour over 6’4” in height hailing from New Hampshire and I have found that there are no such documented persons.
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
124829 posts
Posted on 7/10/23 at 4:34 pm to
quote:

He's framing the argument. A bait and switch.


Unironically ironic.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
293903 posts
Posted on 7/10/23 at 4:36 pm to


You are hung up on ritualistic abuse, not him

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