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re: Trump calls on FED to cut rates; hints at Powell being fired soon

Posted on 4/17/25 at 10:14 am to
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135699 posts
Posted on 4/17/25 at 10:14 am to
quote:

That initial bump doesn’t just “not count” in the inflation calculation over a period of time. Producers don’t drop their prices back down after the initial shock
You don't understand what you're addressing.
There is a difference between a price delta and inflation. E.g., Goods were approximately 9% more expensive in 2015 than in 2010, representing a 9% bump in price through 2015. Yet inflation in 2015 was just 0.12%
quote:

Producers don’t drop their prices back down after the initial shock
That would represent DEFLATION.

quote:

so the higher prices are sustained from that point forward
... and if they held pat from that point, inflation would be zero. Do you follow.

Put differently, which Fed policy could unwind the price differences subsequent to a tariff hike?
Posted by dinosaur
Louisiana
Member since Aug 2007
1156 posts
Posted on 4/17/25 at 10:21 am to
Trump has always said things that make people think he speaks before he thinks so his comments should not be a surprise. But when inflation is actually being reduced and a recession is being forecast, perhaps a more measured statement from the fed about future rates should be expected. I think the Trump statement is more about frustration over what seems to be political criticism of his policy. I would add that the fed seems to have been wrong on a lot of forecasts in the last few years and it makes me wonder how much of what they are doing is based on something other than economics.
Posted by Crowknowsbest
Member since May 2012
26823 posts
Posted on 4/17/25 at 10:21 am to
quote:

You don't understand what you're addressing. There is a difference between a price delta and inflation. E.g., Goods were approximately 9% more expensive in 2015 than in 2010, representing a 9% bump in price through 2015. Yet inflation in 2015 was just 0.12%

Inflation may have been 0.12% in 2015, but it would have to be higher from 2010 to 2014 to for goods to have been 9% more expensive, which it was (1.6, 3.2, 2.1, 1.5, and 1.6% respectively).
quote:

and if they held pat from that point, inflation would be zero. Do you follow.

It would be zero on a go-forward basis, but definitely not zero on a T-12 basis. Economic metrics don’t just ignore shocks.
This post was edited on 4/17/25 at 10:24 am
Posted by Crowknowsbest
Member since May 2012
26823 posts
Posted on 4/17/25 at 10:23 am to
quote:

Put differently, which Fed policy could unwind the price differences subsequent to a tariff hike?

There isn’t a fed action to specifically counter the effects of tariffs, but to counter any inflationary side effects, you would raise rates. To counter job and/or productively loss, you would lower rates. Therein lies the conflict for the Fed with tariffs.
Posted by TenWheelsForJesus
Member since Jan 2018
10400 posts
Posted on 4/17/25 at 10:24 am to
quote:

That initial bump doesn’t just “not count” in the inflation calculation over a period of time. Producers don’t drop their prices back down after the initial shock, so the higher prices are sustained from that point forward.


People constantly say this, but you're only looking at one variable. Tariffs do not increase all prices. Much of the time, it simply shifts purchases to the domestic item, which does not increase prices.

Companies can also eat some or part of the tariffs. Anti-tariff bros pretend that every single penny of a tariff is always passed on to the consumer, and that simply isn't true.

If this never happens, then you should be able to see a dollar for dollar increase in every foreign product. If a 20% tariff is added to washing machines, then they should increase by 20%. We all saw this never happened in Trump’s first term.

You also don't consider companies like Walmart. They don't make their money on high profit margins. They make their money on volume. If Kroger raises prices, Walmart can keep theirs the same and increase market share. Why would Walmart change their business model when it's proven successful?

As more production moves back to the US, costs decrease through economies of scale and innovation. This long term outlook is another facet of tariffs routinely overlooked.

Price increases also lower demand which brings prices down until the happy medium is found.

The market adjusts. It's not this huge monolith that only ever responds in a single way as the "free market" crowd falsely pretends.
Posted by Prettyboy Floyd
Pensacola, Florida
Member since Dec 2013
16604 posts
Posted on 4/17/25 at 10:26 am to
quote:

Give me 5% for a month so I can refi and then yall can go back to your regularly scheduled program.


So happy I bought about 5 years ago. Sitting at like 2.3pct interest. I was also able to sell a house before interest rates went crazy.
Posted by SlayTime
Member since Jan 2025
3738 posts
Posted on 4/17/25 at 10:26 am to
quote:

Your numbers are wrong but the debt increases occurred primarily because of a virus intentionally created by the Chinese. We’re obtaining compensation for that now via the tariffs.


You’ll get lots of DV’s but no counter argument.

Know why?

Because no one wants to go on record disputing your extremely logical position.
Posted by Crowknowsbest
Member since May 2012
26823 posts
Posted on 4/17/25 at 10:27 am to
I said nothing about the impact being dollar-for-dollar or easily quantifiable. Of course there will be market changes to adjust, but you can’t project those changes any better than the “anti-tariff” bros.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135699 posts
Posted on 4/17/25 at 10:39 am to
quote:

and if they held pat from that point, inflation would be zero. Do you follow?
---
It would be zero on a go-forward basis, but definitely not zero on a T-12 basis.
Negative.
If, in Year-1, tariffs bump CPI from 320 to 335, then Year-2 ends with a CPI of 335.
What is the inflation rate for Year-2?

Y2Y inflation measures are always "T-12".

Further, insofar as tariffs bump price, which in turn dampens demand, they would be expected to be disinflationary in subsequent years. What should the Fed response be under those conditions?
This post was edited on 4/17/25 at 10:41 am
Posted by Crowknowsbest
Member since May 2012
26823 posts
Posted on 4/17/25 at 10:44 am to
quote:

If, in Year-1, tariffs bump CPI from 320 to 335, then Year-2 ends with a CPI of 335. What is the inflation rate for Year-2?

0%. Nothing I said above disputes that.
quote:

Further, insofar as tariffs bump price, which in turn dampens demand, they would be expected to be disinflationary in subsequent years. What should the Fed response be under those conditions?

That would depend on a myriad of other factors. If the dampened demand did not cause a rise in unemployment, the Fed would probably keep rates constant.
Posted by CR4090
Member since Apr 2023
8251 posts
Posted on 4/17/25 at 10:45 am to
Should have already been fired.
Posted by cadillacattack
the ATL
Member since May 2020
9633 posts
Posted on 4/17/25 at 11:09 am to
quote:

hints at Powell being fired soon


A little about Judy Shelton, a potential candidate for Jpow’s replacement:


quote:

Judy Shelton’s proposal of gold-backed government bonds

Another possible use for the US gold treasure comes from Judy Shelton. Many years ago, Judy Shelton, who is seen as a possible successor to Jerome Powell, whose term ends in 2026, presented her plan for a gold-backed government bond.

The plan is simple and includes two main components: gold convertibility and the revaluation of the US’s current gold reserves mentioned above. Selected US Treasury emissions with a 50-year term, for example, would include an option for the bondholder to redeem the bond for a predetermined amount of gold per USD 1,000 face value in gold.

Regardless of whether this plan is implemented or not. It is further proof that gold is seen as a serious asset for solving serious economic problems.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135699 posts
Posted on 4/17/25 at 11:11 am to
quote:

any inflationary side effects
The side effect of decreased demand d/t increased cost is not inflation.
Posted by LanierSpots
Sarasota, Florida
Member since Sep 2010
69762 posts
Posted on 4/17/25 at 11:28 am to
quote:

So happy I bought about 5 years ago. Sitting at like 2.3pct interest. I was also able to sell a house before interest rates went crazy.


It took almost 2 years for our new home to be completed. During that time, we had no idea when it would be finished so all we could do is wait. We just landed during the bad time.


We will fix it when they come down. Id like to see 5 or 5.25 and I will refi.


Then a 29 foot CC with twins will be where my 25 footer is right now.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135699 posts
Posted on 4/17/25 at 11:34 am to
quote:

the Fed would probably keep rates constant.
Then they'd be making a costly mistake, for several reasons.
Posted by lake chuck fan
Vinton
Member since Aug 2011
21510 posts
Posted on 4/17/25 at 11:35 am to
quote:

You have idiots that say inflation was coming down with Biden....my god, it went through the roof (higher than what they were reporting)



Thats after Biden admin changed the metrics of calculating inflation so it wouldn't as high!!!
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
297283 posts
Posted on 4/17/25 at 11:35 am to
quote:


Then they'd be making a costly mistake, for several reasons.


Why should they be cut? Are things looking that badly?

Posted by TigersHuskers
Nebraska
Member since Oct 2014
14785 posts
Posted on 4/17/25 at 11:36 am to
Melt
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
297283 posts
Posted on 4/17/25 at 11:37 am to
quote:

TigersHuskers


What are the indicators that show rates need to be cut?
Posted by SDVTiger
Cabo San Lucas
Member since Nov 2011
93831 posts
Posted on 4/17/25 at 11:40 am to
quote:

What are the indicators that show rates need to be cut?


Inflation on the CPI being below their target once correct shelter is being used

UE rate increasing. Retail sales will be very low next month. Negative GDP
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