re: .

God damn I watched that segment, Im liberal as frick, and I came away thinking Ben Affleck looked no better than any right wing partisan hack. He was a complete and utter bitch in that segment.

Wtf? Are you serious? He might as well have put his fingers in his ears. He refused to acknowledge any of the subtlety of the counter arguments and instead called them racist. He didn't respond at all when confronted with polling statistics. M

Mahers position that liberals give Muslims a pass for bigotry etc for fear of being labeled Islamaphobia is absolutely true and Affleck showed us exactly why.

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Here's a pretty interesting article on the debate. It containts the poll numbers Harris and Maher brought up:

WashPo

I dont agree with the title though. Harris and Maher did not cast a blanket statement, they merely acknowledge that a very statistically SIGNIFICANT number of Muslims hold extremely fundamentalist views which are completely contrary to what they view as liberal ideology.

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The polls are illustrative, but even moreso, it's an experiential thing.

If you've lived in a majority-Islamic state for a period of time, it is really and truly difficult to describe just how pervasive the religion is in every aspect of life. The Western concept of separation of nodes of human life just doesn't exist...like at all. The religious is the political and the economic and the educational and the legal and the physical and institutional...

I have a difficult time teasing Islam out from Arabic culture - Islam as practiced elsewhere is generally not as vicious (except in parts of Africa), but because of both the origin of the religion and the methods by which it spread, aspects of Arabized Islam are present in every Islamic society on earth. This has become much worse over the last three generations or so as the Arab Islamic world flooded much of the rest of the Islamic world with theology and funding because of immense energy wealth. Places like Chechnya, parts of the Philippines, Pakistan, and sub-Saharan Africa have devolved significantly from what they used to be.

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AbuTheMonkey

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I posted this in the other thread, but it's a decent reply and agreement with your post:

I don't think it's just an Islam issue. It goes a little deeper than that. It's cultural. A developed, useful and liberal culture can maintain it's religion and beliefs. In the case of Christianity and Judaism, they've evolved along with their societies while maintaining their core moral views.

Muslims haven't, because their culture hasn't evolved. Every culture seeks to advance. When you fail at electricity, at infrastructure, at education, at science, at art, at music, at everything the rest of the world values, you still have a strong desire to advance. So you advance in the easier ways, by fighting and overpowering. This causes another problem. In the early days of Islam, Muslims could successfully fight with nearly anyone and in most cases win. They can't now. Their lack of development has forced them out of even a military advancement. They simply don't have the weapons, the science or the infrastructure to do now what their ancestors did. What could be done on horseback and with swords now requires satellites, rockets, missiles, planes, bombs, artillery, ships, submarines, nuclear weapons and the internet.

So now they're forced into what amounts to a cycle. Abject failure on every meaningful front brings forth extremism and a desperate attempt to succeed at something. Namely, jihad. But they can't even succeed at that anymore. And that brings out more extremism.

It's not just that Islam isn't working, it's that nothing there is, and Islam is the vehicle they use to act out. It's a useless culture with no sign of reform.

All that said, it's their useless culture. Not ours. We don't need to stop it or try to fix it unless and until it begins to threaten us. I'm not convinced, right now, that it does.

#FTnottrolling

Holy shite, Saad nailed that.. thanks for posting.

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Muslims haven't, because their culture hasn't evolved.

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because of islam, which rejects western culture in practice pretty much everywhere that you find it

that is the very discussion of the OP: pretty much wherever you go, islam rejects western, liberal values. western liberals go out of their way to defend these groups that are their ideological enemies. western liberals do not allow other groups this leeway

I am so glad that this debate is occurring.

This debate is exhibit 1A regarding how broken and diseased the liberal mindset has become in 2014. Not only is the liberal mindset broken and diseased, it is extraordinarily dangerous.

Poor Christians get ridiculed, made fun of, called names, belittled, etc by the liberal. They never run out of hate for Christians who do little more than go sing some hymns and eat some fried chicken after church on Sunday. Anyone who tries to draw a distinction between Christianity and Islam in 2014 is hit with ludicrous arguments that they are the same based on McVeigh and the crusades.

But Islam? Islam is damn near literally setting the world on fire and committing unimaginable acts of barbarism on a daily basis and Liberals will defend the religion tooth and nail.

Had the discussion been about Christianity, Ben Affleck would have sat in that same damn chair in that same damn studio in front of that same damned camera and waxed poetically about those "hateful, bigoted Christians" and how they need to "join the 21st century." But Islam? He defends them as if someone called his girlfriend a slut. "Don't you dare say that about her!"

Then, you've got chicken lady crying like someone dropped her grandma off a roof about someone eating an egg while she is probably late for a pro abortion rally.

All a bunch of sick bastards, every damn one. I'm glad it is being laid bare under a particularly bright light this week.