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Started By
Message
re: To the citizens of Taiwan.....RUN!!!
Posted on 5/27/24 at 8:47 am to KiwiHead
Posted on 5/27/24 at 8:47 am to KiwiHead
quote:
What China likes more than the idea that Taiwan should be a part of China is having everyone think that they would sacrifice men and material to accomplish it.
I don’t disagree with this.
That wasn’t the basis of the discussion though.
The point was that the “world” would stop China from doing so. I disagreed and labeled my points as the why I disagree (complete with salient facts to support my stance).
For some reason, SFP got his feelings hurt.
This post was edited on 5/27/24 at 8:49 am
1
Posted on 5/27/24 at 8:54 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
They have low-margin, lower-level manufacturing/industrial output, which requires a massive population to cerate GDP (which is gone in a few decades).
This is false as well.
If you want to use that argument, then you would need to apply it to large scale construction. It made up a significant portion of the GDP at one point, and was actually paid for by their citizens. The construction of these “ghost cities” allowed China to invest in infrastructure projects (both in and outside of China).
As such, China is setting themselves up to be successful with a smaller population. How?
quote:
they got too used to just stealing shite.
Including tech related to automation.
Posted on 5/27/24 at 8:55 am to Chair45
quote:
sorry for being ignorant, but if someone could provide some cliffs as to why China is pissed at Taiwan now, that'd be great
Pretty sure they believe the people of Taiwan are squatters on their land
Posted on 5/27/24 at 8:59 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
It would not be enough food for the population to continue to support the CCP.
This is an assumption on your part. I would suggest an incorrect one.
by any metric, China has enough food at this time.
Yet, they asked their population to cut out one of their three meals a day.
The citizens did so with no qualms.
If Covid didn’t teach you anything else, it should have taught you that the masses can be easily manipulated (even more so in a communist country).
Posted on 5/27/24 at 9:01 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
So China's plan is to to ensure that the President who will stand up to them remains in office?
Wait, you actually believe that Biden is standing up to China?
Don’t
Posted on 5/27/24 at 9:01 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
This was about stockpiling oil…which China is.
They aren't stockpiling enough for a wartime scenario or to have oil to just run their domestic needs for any given period of time.
They would need this increase for a wartime scenario (The domestic needs + 20%). SA would not be supplying China with oil at all in a wartime scenario.
quote:
Why are YOU conflating issues.
I'm not.
Oil is one point. China getting Muslims to engage in "uprisings" in Europe" is another point. You need to learn the definition of words. Start with "conflate"
quote:
Sadly, you have posted another deflection void of substance.
Says the man who doesn't know what simple words like "conflate" means, and, apparently, can't do basic math.
Posted on 5/27/24 at 9:02 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
For some reason, SFP got his feelings hurt.
More words you need to learn the definitions of, apparently.
Posted on 5/27/24 at 9:02 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
Wait, you actually believe that Biden is standing up to China?
No. That's his argument.
Learn to read
Posted on 5/27/24 at 9:08 am to KiwiHead
quote:
You think Biden or any American President would just allow such a thing because they would be worried about potential embarrassment?
Have you learned nothing from Ukraine?
Do you really believe that there would be a direct conflict between the US and China over Taiwan?
A proxy war, yes.
Direct conflict?
I don’t see it.
Lastly, Taiwan has a number of advantages over Ukraine.
Taiwan can largely sustain itself food wise. It won’t be a feast, but it won’t have a famine.
Additionally, it has the best weapon’s available, and not just a handful of them.
Lastly, while close to the mainland in proximity, it isn’t a border nation. As such, the logistics become an issue, in particular going through international waters.
I believe that China is saber rattling.
However, I also don’t see the “world” intervening in a direct conflict.
Just my .02.
Posted on 5/27/24 at 9:14 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Why are YOU conflating issues.
quote:
Oil is one point. China getting Muslims to engage in "uprisings" in Europe" is another point.
Are the Saudi’s sending oil, yes or no?
Did the Chinese intern the Uighur people, yes or no?
So the Saudis ignored the Uighur issue.
Yet somehow you claim that the Uighur issue would keep the Muslims from taking money from the Chinese in order to foment uprisings in Western Europe.
Your take (unsurprisingly) lacks logic.
quote:
They aren't stockpiling enough for a wartime scenario or to have oil to just run their domestic needs for any given period of time.
You don’t know that.
quote:
They would need this increase for a wartime scenario (The domestic needs + 20%). SA would not be supplying China with oil at all in a wartime scenario.
Unless they spent years stockpiling it…which they have.
quote:
Says the man who doesn't know what simple words like "conflate" means, and, apparently, can't do basic math.
That’s ironic considering I have illustrated where YOU are wrong on both accounts.
Again, stick to the law.
Obviously geo-politics is beyond your scope of knowledge.
This post was edited on 5/27/24 at 9:16 am
Posted on 5/27/24 at 9:14 am to 3Son
Three things to think about:
1. China is in critical demographic / economic collapse. CCP / PRC has maybe 5 - 15 years left.
2. Opposed amphibious operations are incredibly hard to do. CCP's military has never done anything well, against the Soviet, Vietnamese and US military they failed to accomplish their goals.
3. Taiwan (RoC) has conventional (non nuke) long range ballistic missiles and Cruze missiles that can hit and maybe destroy the Three Gorges Dam. Braking the dam would be like nuking the CCP heartland.
CCP attacking Taiwan has very little chance of being worth it. But CCP's dictator may not be rational.
1. China is in critical demographic / economic collapse. CCP / PRC has maybe 5 - 15 years left.
2. Opposed amphibious operations are incredibly hard to do. CCP's military has never done anything well, against the Soviet, Vietnamese and US military they failed to accomplish their goals.
3. Taiwan (RoC) has conventional (non nuke) long range ballistic missiles and Cruze missiles that can hit and maybe destroy the Three Gorges Dam. Braking the dam would be like nuking the CCP heartland.
CCP attacking Taiwan has very little chance of being worth it. But CCP's dictator may not be rational.
Posted on 5/27/24 at 9:19 am to Chair45
quote:
sorry for being ignorant, but if someone could provide some cliffs as to why China is pissed at Taiwan now, that'd be great
Your better served performing your own due diligence rather than someone else spoon feeding you their opinion on the matter.
Posted on 5/27/24 at 9:19 am to FedTiger
quote:
1. China is in critical demographic / economic collapse. CCP / PRC has maybe 5 - 15 years left.
According to whom?
The IP theft makes the “population bomb” irrelevant.
As for their economy, China frintloaded an immense amount of money into infrastructure. Much of that was in the “Belt and Road” initiative. They are going to look to Europe as a primary market, and Africa as a primary source. They are currently much better positioned than us imho.
As for points 2 and 3, I agree with your takes.
Posted on 5/27/24 at 9:22 am to jimmy the leg
Overall we are probably in agreement.
Posted on 5/27/24 at 9:23 am to Gifman
quote:
China still believes Taiwan is part of China. They’re trying to take it back
Kinda like Russia is doing with Ukraine.
POTATUS is doing a fine job.
Posted on 5/27/24 at 9:24 am to 3Son
They copied their weapon systems from Old Russian designs
You can see how they were working in Ukraine the first 18 months
You can see how they were working in Ukraine the first 18 months
Posted on 5/27/24 at 9:47 am to KiwiHead
quote:
Overall we are probably in agreement.
Posted on 5/27/24 at 9:49 am to Tantal
quote:
Not in terms of ground forces, but they have the world's 2nd most powerful expeditionary navy. Historically speaking, continental powers with large coastlines have always been preyed upon by maritime powers. In 1904-1905 Japan sunk the entire Pacific Fleet and Baltic Fleet of the Russian Empire in 2 battles. They couldn't take us, but the Japanese Navy can go toe to toe with anyone else. Also, China having ships means nothing if they can't actually fight with them. China has no experience whatsoever with maritime combat whereas we invented modern naval combat.
The reason Japan couldn’t take us, as you say, is our industrial capability dwarfed theirs. After Pearl Harbor, American shipyards built a fleet of ships the likes of which the world had never seen. Same for fighters, bombers, and everything else needed to wage war. The secret to our success in WWII was our industrial might, especially when it came to the ability to build more ships than the rest of the world combined.
But that was 80 years ago. What is our ship building ability today? Well, this chart is telling…
If you’re looking for the United States, we’re a part of that 6% “rest of the world” while China is building almost half of all shipping in the world.
And here’s the breakdown by gross ton…
Again, we fall in with the “other”.
We are in a sad state when it comes to fighting a maritime conflict. In fact, today in 2024, we sit on the same position Japan did in 1941. Our Navy is large and lethal. But its only hope of success is to land a knockout punch with its first swing. If that first swing fails to knockout our opponent, especially China, we are screwed.
This post was edited on 5/27/24 at 9:51 am
Posted on 5/27/24 at 9:53 am to Tmcgin
quote:
They copied their weapon systems from Old Russian designs You can see how they were working in Ukraine the first 18 months
Does that include the j-20?
They have a few hundred as of now, with more in production.
It has many features from our F-35. I wonder how they got that info…
Posted on 5/27/24 at 9:56 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
Are the Saudi’s sending oil, yes or no?
Are we at war?
Is China creating "uprisings" in Europe with Muslims now, or not?
quote:
Yet somehow you claim that the Uighur issue would keep the Muslims from taking money from the Chinese in order to foment uprisings in Western Europe.
Yes.
quote:
You don’t know that.
Simple math. They've increased by 20%.
Calculate the days they have been doing this, divide by 5, and that's how many "stockpile" days they have. This is also ignoring increased use during war time. Hint: it's not enough for a war.
quote:
That’s ironic considering I have illustrated where YOU are wrong on both accounts.
You have not, but you can continue to shite on the chess board and proclaim it's a victory.
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