re: Things for Christians to consider in regards to immigration.

To be clear, by "these people," I mean the hustlers who organized this, not the kids, not even the fake ones.

Don't hack me, bro.

Jesus did care about people, especially children, but his primary focus wasn't about the physical well-being of people. The reason He came was to save people from their sins and make sure their spiritual well-being was secured by preaching a message of repentance of sins and faith in His sacrificial death for salvation.

So with that context, I think the duty of Christians is to help one another with the preached Gospel message in mind. Even the physical healing that Jesus performed was done to accompany his message of salvation and spiritual health.

I support immigration into this country so that those who seek it can try for a better physical/material life. But that needs to be done within the context of the law. The immigration laws exist to protect the people of this country, and we can see why with an influx of "illegals" coming in with severe health issues that could affect those who already live here. An open border also allows for enemies of this country and its people to easily come in and attack from within, so having some measures for gaining access to the abundance of wealth and well-being is not a bad thing, nor does it lack compassion. It is a very compassionate thing for those who already live here.

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When you welcome little children, you're welcoming him. Glenn Beck got a lot of flack for saying that we should open our hearts to them, and then sent food, toys and clothes to the children being held in custody.

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Glenn has good motives in wanting to help them. We can afford to return them to their parents in better shape than when they showed up. We should keep the children who have no parents and help find them decent homes. I have no problem with this.

I don't have a problem with helping them. I have a problem with us keeping the ones claiming to be under the age of 18 when they're more than likely over the age of 30.

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This. I'm fine with letting them in to earn a living. I don't think immigrants should EVER qualify for welfare. Only natural born citizens and even then, they should have to work of it. Liberals keep spouting FAIR SHARE bull shite. Well, I pay more than my "fair share" while millions sit on their asses and will never ever do jack shite. How is that fair to us working and paying taxes? And quit incentivizing them to keep fricking reproducing. Shitasses breed more shitassed. It's fricking science. Why can't the "party of science" get that?

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I remember as a young man out of high school in 1977 I worked for a contractor/builder framing, roofing and doing drywall making $5.50 per hr. At the time that was a decent wage, fast forward 37 yrs and now that same job pays $8-12 per hr or less and almost all the labor is illegals excluding the lead carpenter or site foreman. Now you say you're fine with allowing these immigrants in to earn a living, is it because you think your job is safe? Personally I don't fear losing my job to immigrants but I feel for a lot of young men who "sit on their asses" because we've destroyed the wages by allowing all this illegal immigration. One last point, the labor participation rate is approx. 63%, we don't need anymore low skilled workers in this country or we'll have more people (citizens) sitting on their asses.

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I realized then that I was really angry over the welfare state, and I was pretty much powerless to stop the machine. I had directed my anger towards those who were just acting like most human beings do, instead of being angry at those who incentivized them to do so.

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I hold no personal grudge against those individuals, but why should I attempt to stop something that will never change (welfare) instead of something that can be changed (illegal immigration)?

Futile wars are just that, futile. Expending energy to combat an immovable object is illogical.

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If your political ideology or worldview causes you to resent or hate children, then it's not worth anything at all.

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I vehemently challenge the notion that the majority of these individuals are children. What proof is there to that assertion?

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This isn't directed at anyone particular on this board, but I felt moved today to share this. I think we get caught up in worldly things and we lose focus on what's important.

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You are right, we get caught up in the unimportant things too often, but that argument is not relevant in the instance.

We can't save everyone. No one can. Reality is not kind.

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We could probably eliminate 75% of the federal employees minus the military, most of the federal workers have jobs that are duplicated in some form at the state level.

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You have anything to back this up or is it just your opinion? Must say this looks like a totally made up number with not a whit of facts to back it up. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but that doesn't mean that the opinion is based on valid facts.

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I support immigration into this country so that those who seek it can try for a better physical/material life. But that needs to be done within the context of the law. The immigration laws exist to protect the people of this country, and we can see why with an influx of "illegals" coming in with severe health issues that could affect those who already live here. An open border also allows for enemies of this country and its people to easily come in and attack from within, so having some measures for gaining access to the abundance of wealth and well-being is not a bad thing, nor does it lack compassion. It is a very compassionate thing for those who already live here.

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spot on my friend.

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Comprehension my man, I stated probably 75%, you know what? I think I'll stick with it just by the nature of how huge the government has grown over the past 75 yrs, the number of federal employees has not grown in a linear fashion with the population of the US, and I have a little inside info having worked on some contracted jobs with the federal government and saw 1st hand the waste. At a minimum many of the federal jobs could be handled at the state level.

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Well I'm glad you've worked some contracted jobs and have some insight. Since most federal agencies deal with federal laws how could a state do this? What agencies are you talking about that are overstaffed or do jobs a state agency can do? How would the states afford these employees. How legally could a state agency do work that a federal agency has a federal legislative direction and jurisdiction to do. A delegation perhaps? Well are those allowed under statute? I won't go on. Things are often much more complex than you might think. What one thinks is a simple solution may not in fact be any solution. My irritation with statement like this is that I see it thrown around a great deal with no real understanding of the complexity of the issue.

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I never said they were forced. I said they were incentivized.

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Either way it is a clear violation of the law of the land. Rules that are in place for our good, and are to be followed by the faithful, according to church leaders

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Romans 13:1-3

1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil.

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I was once very infatuated with illegal immigration. I wanted everyone deported. I was very angry foreigners were able to use our ER's, driving up cost. I was angry that they there children were able to use our schools, and that their families were able to receive public assistance.

My attitude about the issue began to change when I listened to a speech by Milton Friedman. His point, which is repeated on the board many times, is you can have open borders or you can have open welfare, but you can't have both.

I realized then that I was really angry over the welfare state, and I was pretty much powerless to stop the machine. I had directed my anger towards those who were just acting like most human beings do, instead of being angry at those who incentivized them to do so.

Right now the focus is on the unaccompanied, immigrant children, and I'm sad to see how some have reacted. I even read something this morning (I don't know if it's verified) of some members of a militia threatening to shoot children who cross the border.

For one, I'm pretty certain that Jesus doesn't care about the borders of nations. His Kingdom is not of this world, and if you are a child of God, then your citizenship is in The Kingdom, and you're just a temporary visitor here. In the most real sense, you're not an American. Jesus does very much care about how you love your neighbor.

Jesus also cares very much about children. When you welcome little children, you're welcoming him. Glenn Beck got a lot of flack for saying that we should open our hearts to them, and then sent food, toys and clothes to the children being held in custody.

If your political ideology or worldview causes you to resent or hate children, then it's not worth anything at all.

This isn't directed at anyone particular on this board, but I felt moved today to share this. I think we get caught up in worldly things and we lose focus on what's important.

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Great points, appreciate your heart.

But America's borders are not the front and back door of the "church".

3.8 billion dollars is a massive tithe call to action is it not?

And the church under your pretense would already be spending "Trillions" it does not have..

And the church members and their future children are made to pay for the over spending of yesterday.

The right thing to do is not always so clear, especially when 350 million American people are involved.

A Christians, it's important we separate what is Caesars and what is God's.