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Message
re: The Vatican is Evil and it’s part
Posted on 12/21/22 at 9:40 am to Quatre Pot
Posted on 12/21/22 at 9:40 am to Quatre Pot
quote:Please explain to me where I am incorrect. Catholics go out of their way to condemn the notion that we are saved by the grace of God alone, through faith in Christ alone. As soon as sola fide is mentioned, they can't respond fast enough to show that our own works/merits are entirely necessary for our salvation. It's even baked into their view of the afterlife, where Purgatory is a place where we have to suffer for our sins because Christ didn't suffer for them.
Tell me you’re clueless without saying you’re clueless
If you disagree with what I said, please explain.
quote:I think you missed the point of my post. I'm drawing attention to the fact that it is the Messiah alone who saves, and that an entire sect of Christianity teaches that He only makes it possible for us to be saved but we have to contribute something to our salvation.
Edit: Here we sit, 4 days from celebrating the 2022nd anniversary savior of the world’s birth a d we are STILL doing the same thing the Pharisees did that led to that same savior being nailed to a tree. We are spending so much time sick measuring religions and who’s faith is better that we miss the Messiah standing right in front of us
0
Posted on 12/21/22 at 9:41 am to Champagne
quote:I have the scriptures, for starters. I also have studied church history and the fathers quite a bit over the last several years.
Foo: You don't know what you're talking about. You have no real understanding at all about what the apostles and early church taught.
None.
Perhaps you'd like to enlighten me as to what I don't know what I'm talking about?
Posted on 12/21/22 at 9:43 am to Champagne
quote:My denomination doesn't support it. Most Protestant denominations don't support it, either. You have some fringe ones that do, and those are the ones who have rejected the Bible as the only rule for faith and life, by principle or by practice.
The Protestant sects are the ones promoting the Gay Transgender Agenda, folks. The Catholic Church's Catechism remains very clear about the sin of homosexual sexual activity
Posted on 12/21/22 at 9:46 am to RollTide1987
quote:Failure? Catholics have disagreed on doctrine for 2,000 years.quote:
Protestant churches worship God and Jesus. They have differing views on how to do that.
This should tell you everything you need to know about the legitimacy of Protestantism and the failure of Sola Scriptura.
The difference is that Catholicism has centralized power. The Councils and Popes can make decisions and that's what the faithful have to agree to, even if it seems to run contrary to the scriptures and conscience. That power doesn't make the decisions correct, it just makes them final.
That's not a fault with sola scriptura. You gladly trade truth for certainty.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 9:59 am to NPComb
quote:
No. Not completely. Just the leadership. Similar to the White House all is not corrupt yet, but we are hanging on by a thread.
Looking at its history, especially with the nazis, it is hard to say that any part of the vatican is "good."
Posted on 12/21/22 at 9:59 am to FooManChoo
quote:
That's not a fault with sola scriptura. You gladly trade truth for certainty.
Honestly want to hear your answer to two questions. I know there’s going to be no convincing in this thread, but since you appear to have a brain that functions, I’d like to hear what you think—in the spirit of respectful debate and discussion.
1. How does one justify Sola Scriptura when it’s not written in the Bible anywhere?
2. Why do adherents of Sola Scriptura think Jesus spent his teaching years preparing men to lead his movement instead of writing scriptures himself? If his plan was really for the Bible to be the only source of authority, why wouldn’t he have written anything down himself?
Posted on 12/21/22 at 10:00 am to Champagne
quote:That's not what sola scriptura teaches, though. The scriptures are God's written word, but it wasn't always written down.
Foo and the Prots say that Sola Scriptura was what the early church taught EVEN BEFORE any of the New Testament was ever written down.
Let that sink in: the Prots teach that "Bible Alone" was a key tenet of Christianity EVEN BEFORE one word of the New Testament was written down.
To be a Protestant is to ignore history.
The underlying principle is that God's word alone is our sole authority for faith and life (as opposed to human tradition, for example). Once God has said something, that is considered revealed truth that forms the basis for what we must believe. At first the 'scriptures' were oral, but they were still authoritative since they were from God. Then they were written down as a developing canon known to us as the Old Testament, and the OT was God's word that Jesus and the Apostles recognized as authoritative.
Jesus came and His words and teachings were authoritative, and likewise those of the Apostles. Those things which were written down in what we now call the New Testament are those things which are authoritative to all Christians, just like the Old Testament. Now that God has ceased giving revelation, the scriptures are complete and stand as that which is authoritative to Christianity, since it is God's word.
Recall the Bereans that accepted the teaching of the Apostles, but their standard was sola scriptura, as they measured the words of the Apostles against that which was already accepted as God's authoritative word. They were exercising the principle of sola scriptura before the New Testament was written. Protestants are doing the same thing, but now we have a completed canon of scripture to use that the Bereans didn't have.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 10:18 am to RollTide1987
quote:Again, I don't think you understand what sola scriptura is about. It's about authority. What is the basis for truth? Is it the word of God or the word of man? It's not even solely about the form of the scriptures (oral vs. written) as much as what is and is not scripture (that which is God-breathed is scripture).
Even if they had wanted to they couldn't have abided by this doctrine considering the vast majority of the world was illiterate until the relatively recent past. Bibles were also very rare to come by as the printing press wasn't invented until the 15th century. If you wanted a copy of the Bible, you had to commission someone to make one for you - which meant hiring a scribe to copy the Bible by hand. That cost a fortune in those days and only the Church/super wealthy could afford to commission one
If a preacher gives a sermon to the people and everything he says is faithful to the scriptures, he is abiding by the principle of sola scriptura, even if the sermon is oral rather than written, because he (and hopefully the congregation) recognizes that the authority for what he is saying is God, according to His word alone, and not the preacher's own opinions, preferences, or desires.
Bibles were copied furiously in the early church as the church was under persecution and the people wanted their own copies. Yes, it was expensive to copy, so they did what they could. Some churches only had some books/letters, and they made copies of the ones they were lacking when they had the chance. Many people couldn't read, but those who could read would read the to the congregations. For instance, Paul wrote his epistles to the churches in several regions with the expectation that someone there would be able to read it to the congregation, likely the elders there.
Sola scriptura is not defeated by illiteracy because principle is about authority.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 10:20 am to Champagne
quote:Have you considered that other Protestants see those same preachers and have the same reaction as you? Anyone who strays from God's word can make the same mistakes. That's the point of having the scriptures as our final authority. We can point to an unchanging source of truth and make confident judgements against those who pervert the truth.
I see the Protestant television preachers teaching the Prosperity Gospel as they ask for more money so that they can fly around on fast jet planes to bring the Word of Faith to the world.
I then ponder the Bible message of poverty and humility and my mind tells me that the Protestant preacher is on the wrong path.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 10:22 am to BamaScoop
If you haven't read the works of Malachi Martin, then your eyes will be opened once you do.
This post was edited on 12/21/22 at 10:24 am
Posted on 12/21/22 at 10:41 am to CatholicLSUDude
Please provide the arguments why the Catholic Church is the True Church.
Do you think they will hold up to scrutiny whatsoever?
Do you think they will hold up to scrutiny whatsoever?
Posted on 12/21/22 at 10:57 am to Leotiger725
Foomanchoo is correct,
Catholics tend to ignore large parts of scripture, especially from Paul/John.
Here are some examples of scripture which the tenets/practices of the Catholic Church do not adhere to;
Revelations 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll.
Ephesian 2: 8/9/10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast. [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
1 Peter 2:9 “You are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light” (v. 9).
When we fall short (daily) and break fellowship with God, we can rest in the surety that “there is one God and one mediator between God and humanity, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all” (1 Timothy 2:5–6)
“Do not turn to mediums and familiar spirits; do not seek defilement among them” (Lev. 19:31). (Praying to dead Saints)
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16/17
So an elder must be a man whose life is above reproach. He must be faithful to his wife. He must exercise self-control, live wisely, and have a good reputation. 1 Timothy 3:2
Catholics tend to ignore large parts of scripture, especially from Paul/John.
Here are some examples of scripture which the tenets/practices of the Catholic Church do not adhere to;
Revelations 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll.
Ephesian 2: 8/9/10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast. [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
1 Peter 2:9 “You are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light” (v. 9).
When we fall short (daily) and break fellowship with God, we can rest in the surety that “there is one God and one mediator between God and humanity, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all” (1 Timothy 2:5–6)
“Do not turn to mediums and familiar spirits; do not seek defilement among them” (Lev. 19:31). (Praying to dead Saints)
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16/17
So an elder must be a man whose life is above reproach. He must be faithful to his wife. He must exercise self-control, live wisely, and have a good reputation. 1 Timothy 3:2
Posted on 12/21/22 at 11:03 am to Leotiger725
quote:
Please provide the arguments why the Catholic Church is the True Church. Do you think they will hold up to scrutiny whatsoever?
Do I think the arguments for the legitimacy of the largest religion in the world that’s over 2000 years old will hold up to scrutiny? Look at my name. Of course I do!
And as far as my arguments go, I think it would take more of a discussion than me just posting a block of text.
I would begin that question by asking the questions that I asked (that haven’t been answered) above. I think it’s a really good starting point to understand the necessity of a formal church versus an informal, “Bible is the lone authority” church. So here are the questions again:
1. How does one justify Sola Scriptura when it’s not written in the Bible anywhere?
2. If Sola Scriptura is true, why did Jesus spend his teaching years preparing men to lead his movement instead of writing scriptures himself? If his plan was really for the Bible to be the only source of authority, why wouldn’t he have written anything down himself?
Posted on 12/21/22 at 11:07 am to CatholicLSUDude
quote:How does one justify the Trinity when it's not written in the Bible anywhere?
1. How does one justify Sola Scriptura when it’s not written in the Bible anywhere?
Well, as with the Trinity, sola scriptura is a doctrine that is drawn out of the Bible, regardless of whether or not the name of said principle is explicitly stated in it.
First and foremost, the doctrine of sola scriptura is based on God's unchanging, truthful character. Whatever doctrines Christians must believe have to come from God, Himself, who has given us revelation to that end. The whole point of God speaking through the prophets, through Jesus, and through the apostles was to reveal to us what God wanted us to know and to believe. So whatever we must believe must come from God, and therefore we have to have confidence that it is not from man, is not untruthful, and will not change.
This leads us to 2 Tim. 3:16, which says that all scripture is "God-breathed". That which is God-breathed is from God, and if it's from God, it's something we must believe and adhere to. The scriptures themselves only describe the scriptures as being God-breathed, as they are the record of God's word to us. It doesn't describe man-made traditions that way.
Next, we see the principle in practice in Acts 17 where the Bereans were commended for judging even the teaching of the Aapostles by scripture (what they had at the time). What this teaches us is that whatever a man says that we must believe, it should be tested by what we know is truth from God. The scriptures--beginning from when the first books were first penned by Moses--have always been the test of truth from God, and any new revelation had to have the mark of God's miraculous works in order to authenticate it (which would then be added to oral and then written scripture).
This principle is then substantiated by Jesus, Himself, when He condemned the traditions of men (the elders of Israel, which the people looked at as authoritative) as being contradictory to the word of God in Mark 7. Clearly the standard of authority that Jesus used was the commands of God (as recorded in the scriptures). This is further borne out in Christ's temptation by Satan. When confronted with temptation, Jesus responds with the word of God.
I could go on and on, from the parable of the Rich man and Lazarus (God's word was the standard of truth even above raising someone from the dead) to the trap set about marriage in Heaven (Mark 12), to Peter declaring that he must obey the commands of God over the commands of men (Acts 5), the scriptures (the word of God) is the standard for authority that is given time and time again.
quote:The same question could be asked of the Father. Why spend so much time speaking through OT Prophets who wrote the OT scriptures over hundreds of years when He could have miraculously created a book with everything in it, like He wrote the original tablets of the 10 commandments? The answer is that God could have done whatever He so pleased to do, but He pleased to use others to write down the scriptures.
2. Why do adherents of Sola Scriptura think Jesus spent his teaching years preparing men to lead his movement instead of writing scriptures himself? If his plan was really for the Bible to be the only source of authority, why wouldn’t he have written anything down himself?
One common retort to sola scriptura that Catholics like to provide is that John 21:15 states that Jesus did and said a lot more than what was written down, and that's why the apostolic tradition exists (to provide the missing pieces). The problem with that is that John 21:15 says that there was so much He did (and said, presumably) that, "were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written."
The apostolic tradition of Rome isn't that large, though it seems to have increased over time. It contains several additional doctrines, but the quotes from the Lord were not passed down, neither were the additional miracles that John was referring to that were passed down, outside of maybe a few traditions. By the standard Rome uses, apostolic tradition doesn't relay everything to us. The same thing could have been said of the Prophets, who did and said more than what was recorded in the scriptures, yet God preserved only that which He wanted His people to know and to believe. Those are at least some reasons why Protestants adhere to sola scriptura.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 11:11 am to CatholicLSUDude
1. How does one justify Sola Scriptura when it’s not written in the Bible anywhere?
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.
And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.
He answered them, “And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?
Thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.”
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
2. If Sola Scriptura is true, why did Jesus spend his teaching years preparing men to lead his movement instead of writing scriptures himself? If his plan was really for the Bible to be the only source of authority, why wouldn’t he have written anything down himself?
As far as your second question, Christ never taught anything that was not prophesied or written/alluded to already. See his responses when tempted in the desert.
Also, logically:
1) We need a final authority,
2) Scripture, because of its unique attributes, is the best candidate,
3) Therefore, Scripture is the final authority.
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.
And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.
He answered them, “And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?
Thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.”
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
2. If Sola Scriptura is true, why did Jesus spend his teaching years preparing men to lead his movement instead of writing scriptures himself? If his plan was really for the Bible to be the only source of authority, why wouldn’t he have written anything down himself?
As far as your second question, Christ never taught anything that was not prophesied or written/alluded to already. See his responses when tempted in the desert.
Also, logically:
1) We need a final authority,
2) Scripture, because of its unique attributes, is the best candidate,
3) Therefore, Scripture is the final authority.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 11:15 am to NPComb
quote:
Just the leadership
crappy left wing pope. we have said it for ages. #NOTMYPOPE
name me a church or institution that has not had corruption somewhere through the centuries.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 11:17 am to BamaScoop
Rom 8:26
¶
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness, for we do not know how we should pray, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with inexpressible groanings.
No man knows how to pray period. Praying to God the Father through Jesus Christ interpreted by the Holy Spirit is the only prayers that God hears.
Mary along with all the apostles and profits are dead and can not hear any prayers. Nowhere in the scripture does it say they can, it does say that saints in heaven pray but does not intimate that they can hear prayers.
God hears everything but only acts on what comes from the righteous.
Jhn 9:31
We know that God doesn't listen to sinners, but if anyone is devout and does his will, God listens to him.
1Pe 3:12
For the eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous and his ears are open to their prayer. But the Lord's face is against those who do evil.
¶
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness, for we do not know how we should pray, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with inexpressible groanings.
No man knows how to pray period. Praying to God the Father through Jesus Christ interpreted by the Holy Spirit is the only prayers that God hears.
Mary along with all the apostles and profits are dead and can not hear any prayers. Nowhere in the scripture does it say they can, it does say that saints in heaven pray but does not intimate that they can hear prayers.
God hears everything but only acts on what comes from the righteous.
Jhn 9:31
We know that God doesn't listen to sinners, but if anyone is devout and does his will, God listens to him.
1Pe 3:12
For the eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous and his ears are open to their prayer. But the Lord's face is against those who do evil.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 11:28 am to FooManChoo
quote:
They preach a gospel contrary to that of scripture
I disagree and I'll tell you why. Before the Bible, there was 'the authority'. That authority is God (revealed to us in the person of the second person of the Blessed Trinity - Jesus Christ). We're all on the same page up to this point, right?
In 1910 the protestant denominations took on the task of attempting to determine which books of the Bible were divinely inspired. After much research and effort, they concluded there was no 'authority' on earth (there's that word again) who could do that. Their effort took them to the door of the Catholic Church (the authority), where they stopped. So you see the Bible is a child of the Catholic Church. Given to humanity for its edification and holiness. Plus, it's a record of a peoples in search of God. Don't believe me? Do your own research. But please be open minded and honest.
It wasn't until Johannes Gutenburg invented the movable-type printing press (the Gutenburg Printing Press) in 1440 did the capability exist to mass produce copies of the Bible. Prior to that the job of generating copies of the Bible fell upon the shoulders of Catholic Monks who went about the painstaking labor intensive task of transcribing and binding the Books of the Bible. So instead of cursing the Catholic Church you should thank her for bringing you the Bible.
Are all the clergy in the Catholic Church perfect? Some (a few) are deeply flawed. Many many more are following in the footsteps of their Master as they tend to Our Lord's Flock. They act Personna Christi (in the person of Christ) and they receive their power when they are ordained by their Bishop. The Bishop conveys the power which Jesus himself conveyed upon the Apostle Peter which is passed on to the Bishops (in effect they help the local Bishop in the call to evangelize). So what we have here is a continuous uninterrupted conveyance of divine authority across millenia.
Having said all this, I regret Martin Luther felt compelled to nail his 95 thesis on the door at the Castle Church in Wittenburg, Germany. That action launched the Protestant Reformation. A Reformation that haunts us to this day. Remember God did not intend for us to be separated like this. Did some clergy and laity stain the Catholic Church? Absolutely. But God did send reformers - Francis of Assisi, Teresa of Avila, among many others. If only Martin Luther had been patient.
There is nothing revealed in the Bible that contradicts the teachings of my Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Period. Including and especially as it applies to the Holy Eucharist. Right now in Catholic Churches across the globe Jesus Christ (in the form of Living Bread) is reposed in tabernacles. Do you deny the doctrine of transubstantiation? Jesus is with us, He never left us. In the eyes of the unbeliever what is more absurd, God taking on human form, or God taking on the form of 'Living' Bread? Remember, Jesus Christ said,"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you". - John 6:53 (King James Bible) Pretty definitive proclamation by Jesus Himself would you say?
So each Sunday our Catholic Priest (acting Personna Christi) consecrates the bread and wine, then distributes the Body of Christ (Living Bread) to the flock. Then the Priest gathers the host from the Ministers of Communion, and with much respect and awe they repose Jesus back into the tabernacle. The presence of that tabernacle in my church always reminds me of Moses and Hebrews traveling for 40 years in the desert. They carried with them the Ark of the Covenant. The Covenant was always carried at the front of the tribes as they trudged through the desert. At the end of their days journey they set the Ark of the Covenant in the middle of the camp with all the tents of tribes of Israel arrayed around the Ark. The Ark of the Covenant being a constant reminder of God's presence with and among them.
We Catholics believe in the 'New Covenant' which is Jesus himself residing with us in the tabernacle. If you ever go in a Catholic Church notice where the tabernacle is located? Right in the front of the congregation, behind the altar of sacrifice, and the center of the main isle. And get this. I can visit Him anytime I want. I can receive Him daily (providing I'm void of any serious 'mortal'sin).
Brother in conclusion, the Catholic Church is not your enemy. She is your road (your helper) to salvation. She is the Bride of Christ. That we are divided causes me much heartache and to be honest - it's a scandal. So maybe we should pray to the same God, we both worship, for each other. Fair enough?
Pater celestis destrue claustra dividentes nos.
This post was edited on 12/21/22 at 2:35 pm
Posted on 12/21/22 at 11:49 am to Zarkinletch416
Protestant churches take communion too.
You didnt refute or address any of the verses listed in the posts above.
Your appeal to authority is to a church which has historically been used to keep people from reading the Word of God for themselves, not to mentioned countless other atrocities.
Is it all bad? No. Is it corrupted beyong repair? Absolutely.
What is the basis for Peter being the original Pope and founder of the church? I know what Jesus said to Peter. Did other apostles not also set up churches throughout Eurasia? Did the apostles all agree on how a church should be organized? The answer is no.
You guys really cannot win this argument based on the facts. Maybe we should drop it and agree to disagree. We do have more in common than we dont.
You didnt refute or address any of the verses listed in the posts above.
Your appeal to authority is to a church which has historically been used to keep people from reading the Word of God for themselves, not to mentioned countless other atrocities.
Is it all bad? No. Is it corrupted beyong repair? Absolutely.
What is the basis for Peter being the original Pope and founder of the church? I know what Jesus said to Peter. Did other apostles not also set up churches throughout Eurasia? Did the apostles all agree on how a church should be organized? The answer is no.
You guys really cannot win this argument based on the facts. Maybe we should drop it and agree to disagree. We do have more in common than we dont.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 12:07 pm to Zarkinletch416
If you pray to anyone other than God the Father then it is a pagan religion. But you are correct it is not my enemy but I will never fellowship with it.
quote:
I disagree and I'll tell you why. Before the Bible, there was 'the authority'. That authority is God (revealed to us in the person of the second person of the Blessed Trinity - Jesus Christ). We're all on the same page up to this point, right?
In 1910 the protestant denominations took on the task of attempting to determine which books of the Bible were divinely inspired. After much research and effort, they concluded there was no 'authority' on earth (there's that word again) who could do that. Their effort took them to the door of the Catholic Church (the authority), where they stopped. So you see the Bible is a child of the Catholic Church. Given to humanity for its edification and holiness. Plus, it's a record of a peoples in search of God. Don't believe me? Do your own research. But please be open minded and honest.
It wasn't until Johannes Gutenburg invented the movable-type printing press (the Gutenburg Printing Press) in 1440 did the capability exist to mass produce copies of the Bible. Prior to that the job of generating copies of the Bible fell upon the shoulders of Catholic Monks who went about the painstaking labor intensive task of transcribing and binding the Books of the Bible. So instead of cursing the Catholic Church you should thank her for bringing you the Bible.
Are all the clergy in the Catholic Church perfect? Some (a few) are deeply flawed. Many many more are following in the footsteps of their Master as they tend to Our Lord's Flock. They act Personna Christi (in the person of Christ) and they receive their power when they are ordained by their Bishop. The Bishop conveys the power which Jesus himself conveyed upon the Apostle Peter which is passed on to the Bishops (in effect they help the local Bishop in the call to evangelize). So what we have here is a continuous uninterrupted conveyance of divine authority across millenia.
Having said all this, I regret Martin Luther felt compelled to nail his 95 thesis on the door at the Castle Church in Wittenburg, Germany. That action launched the Protestant Reformation. A Reformation that haunts us to this day. Remember God did not intend for us to be separated like this. Did some clergy and laity stain the Catholic Church? Absolutely. But God did send reformers - Francis of Assisi, Teresa of Avila, among many others. If only Martin Luther had been patient.
There is nothing revealed in the Bible that contradicts the teachings of my Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Period. Including and especially as it applies to the Holy Eucharist. Right now in Catholic Churches across the globe Jesus Christ (in the form of Living Bread) is reposed in tabernacles. Do you deny the doctrine of transubstantiation? Jesus is with us, He never left us. In your eyes of the unbeliever what is more absurd, God taking on human form, or God taking on the form of 'Living' Bread? Remember Jesus Christ said,"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you". - John 6:53 (King James Bible) Pretty definitive proclamation by Jesus Himself would you say?
So each Sunday our Catholic Priest (acting Personna Christi) consecrates the bread and distributes the Living Bread (Body of Christ) to the flock. Then the Priest gathers the host from the Ministers of Communion, and with much respect and awe they repose Jesus back into the tabernacle. The presence of that tabernacle in my church always reminds me of Moses and Hebrews traveling for 40 years in the desert. They carried with them the Ark of the Covenant. The Covenant was always at the front of the tribes. At the end of their days journey they set the Ark of the Covenant in the middle of the camp with all the the tents of tribes of Israel arrayed around the Ark. The Ark of the Covenant being a constant reminder of God's presence with and among them.
We Catholics believe in the 'New Covenant' which is Jesus himself residing with us in His tabernacle. If you ever go in a Catholic Church notice where the tabernacle is located? Right in the front of the congregation, behind the altar of sacrifice, and the center of the main isle. And get this. I can visit Him anytime I want. I can receive Him daily (providing I'm void of any serious 'mortal'sin).
Brother in conclusion, the Catholic Church is not your enemy. She is your salvation. She is the Bride of Christ. That we are divided causes me much heartache and to be honest - it's a scandal. So maybe we should pray to the same God, we both worship, for each other. Fair enough?
Pater celestis destrue claustra dividentes nos.
This post was edited on 12/21/22 at 12:27 pm
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