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Message
Posted on 9/21/23 at 2:57 pm to doubleb
quote:
You are listing reasons why Ukraine or any of the European nations would want in NATO
Doesn’t mean we are obligated to protect them or fund their wars.
You seem to think we need to be world police against any and all aggression.
I don’t, and in this case I believe that neocons in the US government were partly to blame for this war happening at all.
There is no reason to assume a failure to intervene in Ukraine (non NATO, no defense treaty) would cause Putin to believe he could invade a NATO member without a direct military response from the US so the correlation between the two events is highly tortured at best.
Posted on 9/21/23 at 3:04 pm to doubleb
Article from 2015
The Ukraine Mess That Nuland Made
Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences
.
s the Ukrainian army squares off against ultra-right and neo-Nazi militias in the west and violence against ethnic Russians continues in the east, the obvious folly of the Obama administration’s Ukraine policy has come into focus even for many who tried to ignore the facts, or what you might call “the mess that Victoria Nuland made.”
Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs “Toria” Nuland was the “mastermind” behind the Feb. 22, 2014 “regime change” in Ukraine, plotting the overthrow of the democratically elected government of President Viktor Yanukovych while convincing the ever-gullible US mainstream media that the coup wasn’t really a coup but a victory for “democracy.”
Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs Victoria Nuland, who pushed for the Ukraine coup and helped pick the post-coup leaders.
To sell this latest neocon-driven “regime change” to the American people, the ugliness of the coup-makers had to be systematically airbrushed, particularly the key role of neo-Nazis and other ultra-nationalists from the Right Sektor. For the US-organized propaganda campaign to work, the coup-makers had to wear white hats, not brown shirts.
It started to begin here... LINK
The Ukraine Mess That Nuland Made
Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences
.
s the Ukrainian army squares off against ultra-right and neo-Nazi militias in the west and violence against ethnic Russians continues in the east, the obvious folly of the Obama administration’s Ukraine policy has come into focus even for many who tried to ignore the facts, or what you might call “the mess that Victoria Nuland made.”
Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs “Toria” Nuland was the “mastermind” behind the Feb. 22, 2014 “regime change” in Ukraine, plotting the overthrow of the democratically elected government of President Viktor Yanukovych while convincing the ever-gullible US mainstream media that the coup wasn’t really a coup but a victory for “democracy.”
Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs Victoria Nuland, who pushed for the Ukraine coup and helped pick the post-coup leaders.
To sell this latest neocon-driven “regime change” to the American people, the ugliness of the coup-makers had to be systematically airbrushed, particularly the key role of neo-Nazis and other ultra-nationalists from the Right Sektor. For the US-organized propaganda campaign to work, the coup-makers had to wear white hats, not brown shirts.
It started to begin here... LINK
This post was edited on 9/21/23 at 3:11 pm
Posted on 9/21/23 at 3:06 pm to Eurocat
quote:
country getting taken over by evil.
So nato advancing to Ukraine which has been a Red line that Russia said do not cross, which was done. Russia says you’re not getting Ukraine, if you do we will blow up the country. We tell Ukraine, don’t cede to them, then arm them for a futile fight, push them to the battlefront knowing Russia will blow them up. Time goes by, people are dead, cities destroyed, money spent for what? We knew this wasn’t going to work and we did it anyway. Who’s evil exactly?
Posted on 9/21/23 at 3:07 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:Exactly. I'm generally for lower federal spending but if Ukraine is the one item you decide to whine about spending all day, give me a break.
It's also an insignificant amount in the context of our entire budget.
I've posted this before, but if you are concerned about us spending money we don't have, you need to target SS and Medicare.
As it is, you're bitching about the fact that your wife bought name brand peanut butter instead of the generic version while paying a $6,000 mortgage and carrying car notes for an additional $3,000 a month.
It's just tribal political bullshite.
Posted on 9/21/23 at 3:09 pm to thermal9221
I am always shocked when I hear that my acquaintances (lib and conservative) support our direct involvement in this war. The uniparty really has its clutches on the public.
We are majority warhawks now.
We are majority warhawks now.
Posted on 9/21/23 at 3:10 pm to G The Tiger Fan
quote:
Exactly. I'm generally for lower federal spending but if Ukraine is the one item you decide to whine about spending all day, give me a break.
SS and Medicare BENEFIT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
What does ukraine do for us
Posted on 9/21/23 at 3:10 pm to G The Tiger Fan
quote:
Exactly. I'm generally for lower federal spending but if Ukraine is the one item you decide to whine about spending all day, give me a break.
So you are good with all of the money laundering that is making a good chunk of the "establishment" rich while innocent people are dying?
This post was edited on 9/21/23 at 3:11 pm
Posted on 9/21/23 at 3:18 pm to G The Tiger Fan
quote:
but if Ukraine is the one item you decide to whine about spending all day,
Now that we've killed that straw man...
Posted on 9/21/23 at 3:18 pm to MrLahey
quote:
SS and Medicare BENEFIT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
Yeah, I feel a real benefit every two weeks when it comes out of my check. Give me a break.
Posted on 9/21/23 at 3:20 pm to Warboo
quote:So no country with a corrupt government has a right to defend themselves? Good luck with that.
So you are good with all of the money laundering that is making a good chunk of the "establishment" rich while innocent people are dying?
Posted on 9/21/23 at 3:22 pm to G The Tiger Fan
quote:
So you are good with all of the money laundering that is making a good chunk of the "establishment" rich while innocent people are dying?
So no country with a corrupt government has a right to defend themselves? Good luck with that.
They can defend their selves on their own dime. Being that we control the Ukraine government (arm of the DNC) I guess we are funding our own war. The "establishment" is saying "thank you sir, may I have another"...."time to make another deposit!!!"
This post was edited on 9/21/23 at 3:25 pm
Posted on 9/21/23 at 3:23 pm to RoosterCogburn585
Chuck Schumer bowed to Zelensky. These old losers in Congress are disgusting.
Posted on 9/21/23 at 3:24 pm to Warboo
We'll see what happens. I'm generally against Communist dictators using third-world rape invaders to take over mostly white countries in an attempt to rebuild the Soviet Union, but you do you.
Posted on 9/21/23 at 3:26 pm to G The Tiger Fan
quote:
We'll see what happens. I'm generally against Communist dictators using third-world rape invaders to take over mostly white countries in an attempt to rebuild the Soviet Union, but you do you.
If the statement you just made was true I would feel the same way. Problem is that it is not even close to accurate.
Posted on 9/21/23 at 3:27 pm to Warboo
The fact that you don't think the statement is true is how you ended up in the position of supporting a Communist dictator.
Posted on 9/21/23 at 3:29 pm to G The Tiger Fan
quote:
The fact that you don't think the statement is true is how you ended up in the position of supporting a Communist dictator.
I do not support Putin. In fact I cannot stand him. The fact that you and many others cannot see the real reason why this war happened is why this country is in a downward spiral.
This post was edited on 9/21/23 at 3:31 pm
Posted on 9/21/23 at 3:30 pm to Warboo
quote:
Read above.
This
quote:
Those of us that do not have blinders on do understand why Russia invaded. They were provoked into doing so. They drew a line in the sand about NATO. Ukraine (Obiden admin/CIA who actually controls Ukraine) crossed that line and left Russia no choice. The NATO thing plus many other evil dealings in Ukraine started this war. THE US STARTED THIS WAR.
Posted on 9/21/23 at 3:30 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
it's that I am anti-invasion for the most part. I have not seen any reasonable reason for Russia's actions here.
You can be strongly against Russia annexing Ukraine and still not think the US should be heavily involved.
Posted on 9/21/23 at 3:31 pm to G The Tiger Fan
quote:
I'm generally against Communist dictators using third-world rape invaders to take over mostly white countries in an attempt to rebuild the Soviet Union
Also generally against. But not in a let's swear fealty to some CIA puppet and turn over all our tax money to him and our military equipment while our country goes to hell sort of interested. It's about perspective. And you pretend we're required to do something about these corrupt oligarchs battling it out. We're not.
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