re: The move of Jesus in and amongst Islam is truly a thing to behold these days

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Nope, I just use facts

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It is not a fact that the Jews were originally polytheist. That is an ahistorical opinion that has been refuted.

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let the facts determine what is the truth

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Really. And when archaeology continues to support the Bible?

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It’s not hard, but you have to be open-minded and be capable of rational thought.

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Like all of the resources I've given you to correct your misconceptions? I notice you never deal with any of that. You just keep repeating your emotional security blankets

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So some Christians denied Jesus was raised in the flesh

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Who were ultimately exposed as not being Christians

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Christians like Paul in fact, who specifically said Jesus’ body was raised not in flesh but in spirit, as what is sown is perishable and what is raised is imperishable

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Which is of course true and not contradictory. But I totally get how you won't understand that

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some Christians who said...

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Some people say the earth is flat. Does that make them scientists?

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Some Christians claimed...

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Christology has been thoroughly established in numerous ways throughout the early Church. Some people engaging in heresies does not diminish the truth at all. But you knew that, didn't you?

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2 John 7

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You even quote a passage correcting people guilty of heresy but then try to use that passage as proof that the heresy was the actual belief but the correction was the errant view. Do you even know you're doing that? The passage you quote was written and corroborated by eyewitnesses

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The “orthodox” Christians who “won”

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Ok Dan Brown. What a joke. There's an entire discipline of biblical reliability that you're completely unaware of. You are recycling long refuted ideas and you apparently don't even know. Like laughable Jesus Seminar crap with the colored beads.

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Ignatius of Antioch never quoted any of the gospels we have today

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Other than:
In Smyrnaeans 1.1, he quotes Matthew 3:15 almost perfectly
He alludes to 1 Corinthians more than any other book, such as in Smyrnaeans 1.1
His theology of the "flesh" and "blood" of Jesus in the Eucharist (Smyrn 7.1) is deeply similar to the "Bread of Life" discourse in John 6.

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because they hadn’t been written by the time he lived in the first part of the second century.

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You don't even know the basics

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Each one of those lines sought to establish uniformity in the Roman Christian church in the 4th century

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And yet every part of it is derived from the Bible. But you knew that didn't you? The bishops had to prove every line from the Bible

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There were some Christians who believed in two, three, or many gods

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Prove it. Name names

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Many Christians believed Jesus was a created being and distinct in essence

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Who were eventually exposed as heretics because, NEWSFLASH, those ideas are not in the Bible

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Many Christians, perhaps the majority at one point in the second century (Marcionism), believed the evil Yahweh created the world and that Jesus came to rescue us from Yahweh

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And what happened to the followers of Marcion? Were they accepted as orthodox? If their ideas were so biblically grounded, surely they prevailed theologically, right?

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Some said...

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Ok. I've beaten this horse to death

It's astonishing how wrong a person could be about known history. You know some factoids but your conclusions and perception are insanely warped, I'm guessing because of your emotional commitment to Christianity being false. You're citing Dan freaking Brown at this point.

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Yahweh commanded David to conduct a census in 2 Samuel 24

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Do you know why?

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how it was a sin

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If you will check Exodus 30:12, you will see that a census, simpliciter, is permitted. Moreover, 1 Chronicles 21:1 has something to say about this matter.

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innocent Israelites

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Oh really? Tell us more about these people

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Yahweh killed 70,000 innocent Israelites to punish David for doing exactly as he commanded

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Did you even read the first verse of chapter 24?

Do you intentionally misrepresent the Bible? Or is it just a product of ignorance?

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So what?

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It's relevant nerd. Do you even know why?

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Chronicles was a fictive history written to replace their older fictive history

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Prove it

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cherry pick the verse from another book

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So we provide you with a cross reference and then you say it's not a cross reference. Who is cherry picking? It's a DIRECT FREAKING REFERENCE genius

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Chronicles was written by a Levite scribe in the late Persian period to overwrite the Samuel/Kings material from the early Persian Period

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Speaking of fiction

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Deuteronomist Reform

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Ah jeez. Not this documentary hypothesis crap again. Fine. Show me the Deuteronomist source texts. You can't. They don't exist.

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they got to have some say in how the priests in Jerusalem ran their religion

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Except what resulted post exile was the same as what existed pre-exile. Skeptical fiction doesn't change that.

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the Levite scribe, now having “THE Satan” in his arsenal, re-wrote

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Prove it. Name this scribe. Show us the source texts

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Mark says to take a staff and wear sandals, Matthew says not to take a staff and not wear sandals, and Luke says not to take a staff

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Are you getting this elementary school crap from the skeptics annotated bible? There are historically multiple ways these 3 passages could be interpreted. But let's make sure to not recognize those and childishly act like this is just some incredibly obvious oversight that no one in the last 2000 years ever noticed

If you were to take a step back and look at the monumental effort you put into misunderstanding Christianity on the internet in a juvenile attempt to dissuade people of it's truth, a 10,000 foot view, can you not see how emotionally committed you are? Your polemics have nothing to do with facts and history. It is pure emotional bias. Can you not admit that?

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thou shalt surely kill him

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I'll ask the same question again, what does this have to do with the current threat of jihadi Muslims?

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They weren’t writing a Bible

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You think the people who wrote scripture didn't know they were communicating God's word? Wow. Do you know ANYTHING about how the Bible came into being? I'm sure I've cited resources for you on this subject

You sure seem to read people's minds alot.

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there are no contradictions

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Correct. There aren't

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that god PHDs and made it their life’s work wrote books explaining and showing the evidence that it’s a re-write

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Name them. You know perfectly well I'm going to tear that to shreds like everything else you've presented

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He loves making shite up

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You can't be serious. First, Foo gave a perfectly viable interpretation. Second, you are the king of gullibly believing things that are probably written to make money off of rubes such as yourself

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It isn’t in evidence

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I've been asking you for evidence for months. You bring nothing.

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It is not a fact that the Jews were originally polytheist. That is an ahistorical opinion that has been refuted.

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Look fellow, if you can’t acknowledge something like this that is historic fact that is even supported by the Bible, then we aren’t going to ever be able to have any common ground. If you really believe in the Bible as “God’s word” then read it, and come back and tell me what it says about David, Solomon, and about every king of Israel and Judah after them worshipping an assortment of gods except Hezekiah and Josiah. The king was in charge of the state and the religion, and the people did what the king did and practiced what the king practiced.

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You even quote a passage correcting people guilty of heresy but then try to use that passage as proof that the heresy was the actual belief but the correction was the errant view

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Not as “proof” of truthfulness or falseness but as evidence of the existence of the belief (what you referred to as the heresy). Some Christians believed Jesus had not come to earth in the flesh, which is what “John” is whining about.

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There were some Christians who believed in two, three, or many gods

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Prove it. Name names

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Ok. Here’s Justin Martyr in his dialog with Trypho:

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I shall attempt to persuade you that there is, and that there is said to be, another God and Lord subject to the Maker of all things, who is also called an Angel, because He announces to men whatsoever the Maker of all things — above whom there is no other God — wishes to announce to them.

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So Justin calls Jesus “another god” who is an angel of the high god.

Origen - commentary on John

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The God who is over all is ‘God’ in a sense in which the Savior is not God… The Father, who is the font of deity, alone is ‘true God’; but the others are gods by participation, being made divine by being related to him.

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That’s it guy, I’m done with you. If you can’t acknowledge what I’ve told you here, accept that I’m right on these two particular things (polytheism and that early Christian fathers called Jesus a second god) then I’m not responding to any of your other nonsense.

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historic fact

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It's not historical fact and I've invited you to prove it. Every point you've made has been rebutted and all you can do is keep repeating yourself. You can't advance the conversation - because you're a gullible loser who is too emotionally committed to admit that you've been refuted

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supported by the Bible

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Your misunderstanding of the text and Jewish history does not constitute as "support"

Show the verses that you think support polytheism. Try different ones than the ones you've already tried that were body slammed

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worshipping an assortment of gods

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I've beaten this point to death. You're just not in a place emotionally to admit it

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evidence of the existence of the belief

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Who is arguing this? I've explained this to you multiple times.

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Some Christians

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How many times are you going to repeat this? I asked you yet another question on this topic

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Justin Martyr in his dialog with Trypho

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Yet another example of you not understanding what you're quoting.

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subject to the Maker of all things

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called an Angel

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above whom there is no other God

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It's an angel. He's clear about that.

Did you know that Justin makes the case that Jesus is pre-existent and not created? How about that

It's like you don't even understand basic language

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Origen - commentary on John

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I'm curious, where did Origen's comments lead? Do you know the history of this?

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I’m done with you

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Probably for the best. You need some time to go get educated on these topics.

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If you can’t acknowledge what I’ve told you here

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I have responded to every point you've made. You are clearly incapable of advancing the discussion or rebutting. That's likely why you're quitting. You have nothing left.

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accept that I’m right on these two particular things (polytheism

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I have thoroughly responded to this with many rebuttals

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early Christian fathers called Jesus a second god

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Heresies existed - GASP! It's almost like people sometimes disagree. All of those Christological heresies were given their day in court and they ALL lost. Every single one of them. None of them were able to make their case from the truth of scripture. None. They were saying things that every educated believer knew was false upon inspection. But you knew that, didn't you Dan Brown. The only people clinging to the Baur thesis are people making money from agitating Christians and the rubes who buy their drivel, like you apparently

At this point, you've got nothing left. Your sources are trying to rewrite history, in the process overturning several thousand years of continuous Jewish history and theology with speculations that are built on alleged mistakes that are so flimsy and obvious, no one could miss them yet, they have escaped the notice of all of the most brilliant people for millennia.

What's worse is it's clear this is emotional for you. Your responses are all over the place and even contradictory. You haven't answered questions. You just keep hurling the elephant and I've responded to every point you've made, that I am aware of. I've referred you to resources to clear up your misconceptions but you apparently haven't interacted with them at all and thus, you've learned nothing in the exchange. Any halfway intelligent person would be able to acknowledge they've got some learning to do on the topics.

It got so bad you finally just resorted to superficial alleged biblical contradictions, which is entry level skepticism. The lowest of the low employed by the least educated.

What would be more productive for you is to explore why you are emotionally diverging from established, time honored scholarship and limiting yourself to mostly popular level skepticism which is making you super biased. I've asked you this question before, why are you so threatened that Christianity might actually be true and reliable?

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Foo, the something different guy isn’t helping your cause. Your IQ has his beat by a couple of standard deviations. He’s embarrassing himself and you in the process.

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I’m not feeling embarrassed at all, but whether you think he is embarrassing is irrelevant to me, because I would be embarrassed for what you claim if I weren’t so saddened by the eternal torment waiting for you if you don’t turn from your ways.

I think he is doing a great job of taking you to task for your false accusations against the Bible. You have history of accusing me and others of being stupid, idiotic, and so on, and you are even claiming here that he has a low IQ, which I don’t know how you would even know that. You take disagreement as stupidity, as if there aren’t scholars that disagree with each other, or that evidence often times leads people away from the truth rather than towards it. You treat this whole concept like it is purely an intellectual issue, but it isn’t. There is a spiritual component that you are missing, and your materialism won’t lead to anything but death.

Your pursuits are vanity, because if you are right about everything, there is no real meaning to anything. What you are doing is just a waste of time, because in the end, nothing matters, and we all die, and that will be the end.

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Well, carry on with your collective hate and delusions.

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I would say the same to you, but I don’t want you to carry on with your delusions for your own sake. I really don’t want you to suffer God’s wrath, especially since there is a way to avoid it.

God sent His Son, Jesus, to fulfill the requirements of the law in our place because we sin and deserve condemnation. He obeyed the law perfectly and died as a sacrifice for sin so that our sins do not have to be punished for eternity, but so that the eternal God could forgive us and grant us the earned righteousness of Jesus so we can stand pure before Him. Believe that Jesus died so your sins would be forgiven, and you will be forgiven. There is nothing to do but trust in the one who willingly suffered the pain and shame of the cross for sins, and you will be at peace with God.

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If you are not trusting in the works of Christ alone for your salvation—if you are trusting in your own good works to save you—you should fear death. Knowledge alone saves no one.

The demons have more knowledge than any of us could dream of, yet they will perish in Hell forever.

Only Christ saves. Believe in Him and trust in Him alone and you will have no need to fear death. He has taken its sting.

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I already don't fear death. And your version of Jesus is terrible. If you are correct, I 100% denounce Jesus and the Christian religion. You're just a death cult who worships human sacrifice and idols.

Happy now? I will no longer say good things about Jesus. You have convinced me he was nothing but a delusional man.

Funny how he's able to atone for all sin, except not believing in some dude who lived 2000 years ago and claimed to be God. I can rape kids, murder them after and it's OK in Christianity as long as I believe in your false idol. Meanwhile, you would tell those who do everything right and it doesn't matter unless they worship the human sacrifice.

Yeah, it's fricking stupid.