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The great stock market crash of 2024

Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:04 pm
Posted by WaltWhite504
Member since Sep 2021
2108 posts
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:04 pm
Currently living under the bridge and eating soup out of a can, but i have my life and that's what's important.

I hope not too many people jumped out the window. After reading some of the 1000 threads yesterday I knew it was all over. Glad i have my faith.

I haven't had the courage to check the market today. Imagine it was a dark day. I just couldn't do it. My 401k is probably gone, my investments worthless. What is it down now? 10,000 pts, no. 20,000?

How will we ever recover?




Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
36080 posts
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:10 pm to
Also the Supermarket is looking for you.On tape stealing one of their baskets
Posted by Homesick Tiger
Greenbrier, AR
Member since Nov 2006
56127 posts
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:10 pm to
DOW is up 541 presently.
Posted by Bonkers119
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2015
11701 posts
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:11 pm to
quote:

DOW is up 541 presently.


WalzRebound
Posted by Midget Death Squad
Meme Magic
Member since Oct 2008
28168 posts
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:18 pm to
quote:

DOW is up 541 presently.





which is only a 1.5% bounce. 541 doesn't quite mean what it did 30 years ago
Posted by OU Guy
Member since Feb 2022
25085 posts
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:53 pm to
Jim Bianco, my take on what is happening in financial markets.

tl:dr:

Not all sharp moves in financial markets are driven by rapid changes in the economic outlook. Unexpected changes in the financial structure of the markets can also force repricing.

The most recent move in the markets has been driven by the Bank of Japan’s larger-than-expected hike last week, which led to a subsequent unwinding of the yen carry trade.

In other words, everyone is right to be mad at the central bank. The problem is that most blame the wrong central bank; they should focus on the Bank of Japan.

This is the Fed's dilemma. The catalyst for the yen carry trade unwind is the narrowing of the interest rate spread between Japan and the US, which has been caused by the Bank of Japan's hike. But if the Fed succumbs to market demands and cuts rates, it will narrow this spread further and worsen it.

(see post 12/12 for its implications for the U.S. economy)
2/12

Last Wednesday, July 31, the Bank of Japan hiked rates to 0.25%, Its highest rate since 2008. This marked the second hike this year.



3/12

The surge in Japan’s inflation drove this decision. While inflation has decreased over the past year, the concern is it will persist near current levels.



4/n

Note only 29% of respondents to a Bloomberg poll expected a Bank of Japan hike on July 31.



5/12

Overnight Index Swaps market (OIS) discounted just five basis points of hiking.

When the Bank of Japan surprised with a 15 basis point hike (chart above), the post-meeting spike shown below indicates how much of a surprise this move was (last two labels).



6/12

The surprise Bank of Japan hike led to one of the biggest unwinds of the yen carry trade.

First, how big is this trade?

No definitive statistic shows its size, so we have to infer it from the size of the Bank of Japan’s balance sheet.

The chart below shows the Bank of Japan’s balance sheet is larger than the country’s GDP, at 127.5% of GDP. By comparison, the Fed’s balance sheet is 25% of GDP.

If you think the Fed matters to markets, the Bank of Japan has a 5x larger influence on their economy.



7/12

Here are the absolute sizes of the central bank balance sheets.



8/12

What Is the Yen Carry Trade?

Japan’s short-term funding rates (shown above) were the lowest globally. They still are.

However, short-term Japanese rates were also perceived to be predictable and would remain near zero for some time. When the time to hike rates eventually arrived, it would not look like last week: a surprise move with promises of more moves to come.

With the cost of funding rising, we see massive liquidations of positions using this cheap money.

Naturally, the biggest positions using the yen carry trade are in the Japanese markets. In the last three trading days, or since the surprise Bank of Japan hike on July 31, the Japanese stock market has crashed by 20%, even bigger than the three worst three-day moves during the October 1987 crash!

If you’re looking for an indication of this trade’s size, this is as close to a smoking gun as you will find. Remember, the Japanese stock market does not crash because U.S. payrolls missed expectations.



9/12

The yen carry trade is also behind the funding of many markets outside Japan. But the Bank of Japan’s surprise move has strained these trades.

The bottom panel of the next chart shows the dollar has lost 5% of its value against the yen over the last three trading days, again going back to the July 31 Bank of Japan meeting.

Why? Global yen carry trades are being unwound in a big way. This involves existing positions in foreign markets, like the dollar, and bringing these funds home to Japan to close these funding positions. This causes massive buying of yen.



10/12

This is causing a slump in foreign markets, such as the U.S. stock market, which is seeing one of its biggest corrections since the October 2022 bear market low.



11/12

As the next chart shows, the world is running to risk-off markets like U.S. Treasuries, as all markets worldwide are under stress.



12/12

Conclusion

We would argue that much of the recent market chaos concerns financial issues around the yen carry trade. The Bank of Japan’s surprise move to increase funding rates, coupled with the belief that more such hikes are coming, spooked markets and led to an unwinding of this global trade.

As this happens, we see plenty of stories attributing this move to the U.S. economy. The Sahm Rule has been triggered, so there is concern the U.S. economy is already in a recession.

We frequently quote the late MIT economist Rudi Dornbusch:

Economic expansions do not die of old age; they are murdered.

Such financial moves can potentially “murder” the economy into recession. The last such concern of a financial “murder” occurred in March 2023, around the failure of Silicon Valley Bank. The economy was able to avoid this murder.

We would guess the U.S. economy can withstand the current yen carry unwind. Hence, we remain in the "no-landing" camp.

But there is a real risk the economy will not succumb to market volatility. Markets will remain chaotic until this unwind is done.

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Posted by WaltWhite504
Member since Sep 2021
2108 posts
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:55 pm to
quote:

which is only a 1.5% bounce. 541 doesn't quite mean what it did 30 years ago


When It was down 700 at lunch yesterday - OOOOMMMMGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!

When it rebounded 550 by lunch today - thats not a lot

I wonder how many republicans woke up hoping the stock market would crash today, just so they can be right? And were disappointed it didn't.

Cults man. Bunch of Weirdos.
This post was edited on 8/6/24 at 12:58 pm
Posted by WaltWhite504
Member since Sep 2021
2108 posts
Posted on 8/6/24 at 1:02 pm to
quote:

OU Guy


I appreciate your analysis and explanation, but the High IQs on this forum aren't interested in a financial lesson.

If you want upvotes - just blame it all on Kamala and come up with a clever nickname that insults her either by her ethnicity or gender.
This post was edited on 8/6/24 at 1:05 pm
Posted by Redbone
my castle
Member since Sep 2012
20637 posts
Posted on 8/6/24 at 1:08 pm to
quote:

clever nickname that insults her either by her ethnicity or gender.
Low hanging fruit.
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