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re: The church is dying. The killer is the government
Posted on 5/6/14 at 6:15 pm to NC_Tigah
Posted on 5/6/14 at 6:15 pm to NC_Tigah
Outside of this country, I would agree. Especially where people are still willing to believe in the magic of it all.
But this topic was about the church here in the USA.
Pretty sure that the NFL has better ratings then God on sundays.
But this topic was about the church here in the USA.
Pretty sure that the NFL has better ratings then God on sundays.
2
Posted on 5/6/14 at 6:25 pm to asurob1
quote:
You are.
You just haven't come to grips with the truth.
Much like easter I would expect tons of people to show up for a special "catholic" event. Much like the week after easter how many of those people continue to show up.
You know the answer as do I.
The church is struggling there is no doubt about that. But the Catholic Church has been around for 2000 years and has been through worse crap than what we are going through now. We will be around for a long time to come.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 6:27 pm to asurob1
quote:I'm pretty sure MSNBC's Mr. Ed Nightly Show has higher ratings than any Atheist broadcast . . . EVER!
Pretty sure that the NFL has better ratings then God on sundays.
So . . . ?
Posted on 5/6/14 at 6:28 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
I'm pretty sure MSNBC's Mr. Ed Nightly Show has higher ratings than any Atheist broadcast . . . EVER!
So . . . ?
Posted on 5/6/14 at 6:30 pm to anc
quote:
The reality is that the government, via hundreds of welfare programs, has taken the job that the church is called to. And the church has responded by using money to build bigger, fancier buildings, "family life centers," and other extravagance. 50 years ago, a church would never think of taking out debt, now there are churches going under left and right trying to keep up with the church down the street.
And benevolence? Really? A colleague of mine who serves on a diaconate at a different church told me that one of their families was struggling with credit card debt so the church helped them out. I thought that was ridiculous. In other words, the church is just like the world, not standing out, so why bother?
It mainly depends on the church. Take for instance my fathers church.
If they incur any debt they will work their butts off to pay it off quickly. Church of about 500 paid off a 3 million dollar sunday school expansion in less than 3 years.
Along with their financial stability, anybody who shows up needing food, gas, or help with an necessity paid (Utilities, Car repairs, food, rent) gets it. Now their benevolence only goes so far as people were routinely taking advantage of them, but they will help a person a couple of times before cutting them off.
The problem with the majority of churches is that they are now inward focused and they are dying because of it. They no longer invest in the community around them but instead in the buildings and people inside the walls of the church.
Another problem is a lot of these young guys coming out of seminary have no knowledge of how to form and stick to a budget. They think the money will keep rolling in, and eventually it slows down. Thats why I am big on any guy planning on going to seminary getting a Business Admin degree in his undergrad.
This post was edited on 5/6/14 at 6:33 pm
Posted on 5/6/14 at 6:50 pm to beebefootballfan
Here is the "Money is our God" honor roll.
quote:
Kenneth Copeland – Copeland Ministries
Flies around in a $17.5 Jet, lives in a $6 million lakefront mansion with a 1,500 acre campus and a private airstrip. He and his wife make over $655,000 a year in salary alone. It’s not clear whether this includes speaking fees, book royalties, and “love offerings.”
Creflo Dollar – World Changers Church International
Drives a Rolls-Royce and lives in a Million dollar home in Atlanta, and a 2.5 million-dollar apartment in Manhattan. Dollar will not release his salary information.
John Hagee – Cornerstone Church
His last released salary was nearly $1 million per year (2004). Hagee does not release his earnings anymore.
Charles Blake – West Angeles Church of God in Christ
Owns a 10,000 square foot mansion in Beverly Hills (btw his congregation hails mostly from impoverished South Central LA)
His year salary is $900,000 per year.
Benny Hinn – Miracle Worker
In 1997 he admitted to making between $500k & $1 million dollars per year
Joel Osteen – Lakewood Church
Stopped taking his $200,000 salary several years ago. Makes tens of millions off of his numerous books. Joel & family live in a $10.5 million – get this – 17,000 square foot mansion. Treasures in heaven people.
Bishop Eddie Long – New Birth Missionary Baptist Church
Long made over $3 million in a three year period from 1997 to 2000. He drives a Bentley, and lives in a 1.4 million dollar home on 20 acres. An investigation into his non profit showed he made more than $1 million dollars from them on top of his church income. No doubt some of that went toward his legal fees in 2011.
Ed Young – Fellowship Church Dot Com
Lives in a 10k square foot 1.5 million dollar home. He gets paid a cool $1 million dollars a year, plus a $240,000 parsonage allowance. That doesn’t count the royalties he makes off of his recent Sexperiment.
Franklin Graham – Billy Graham Evangelistic Association
In 2008 he reportedly made 1.2 million dollars. Your father should slap your face Franklin.
Rick Warren – Saddleback Church
Has made tens of millions off his book sales (it could be in the hundreds). However… Warrenhas made so much money that in 2005 he repaid all of his 25 years of salary to the church & stopped taking any new salary. He and his wife give away 91% of their income to charity. Rick is the only one doing it right – in my opinion.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 6:50 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
I'm pretty sure MSNBC's Mr. Ed Nightly Show has higher ratings than any Atheist broadcast . . . EVER!
If we count Cosmos as an atheist broadcast (as many christians do) an atheist program is currently wrecking shop in the ratings department
Posted on 5/6/14 at 6:54 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
If we count Cosmos as an atheist broadcast (as many christians do) an atheist program is currently wrecking shop in the ratings department
Posted on 5/6/14 at 7:08 pm to Big12fan
quote:
Here is the "Money is our God" honor roll.
No Catholic people show up on this
Posted on 5/6/14 at 7:11 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
If we count Cosmos as an atheist broadcast (as many christians do) an atheist program is currently wrecking shop in the ratings department
Explosion
Posted on 5/6/14 at 7:15 pm to anc
quote:
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. - 2 Timothy 4:3
Posted on 5/6/14 at 7:19 pm to catholictigerfan
quote:
No Catholic people show up on this
The only two on that list who I don't consider crooks are John Hagee and Rick Warren. Well Olsteen isn't a crook but he teaches a hokey version of the gospel. Most are people who prey on old charismatics. Especially Benny Hinn, I can't stand that guy.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 7:20 pm to asurob1
quote:
Much like easter I would expect tons of people to show up for a special "catholic" event. Much like the week after easter how many of those people continue to show up.
This has been the case forever. It's not a sign of anything as much as you'd like it to be
Posted on 5/6/14 at 7:22 pm to Big12fan
quote:
Here is the "Money is our God" honor roll.
It's worse than just the money and the impact that has on the real ministry rather than building big cathedrals, Jesus theme parks or whatever.
It's the cheapening of the faith in the following of Christ in church to being centered around a Feeling and Experience rather than a place to gather to perhaps hear the word, worship, but mostly gather together. There is a disillusioning thing at play when the feeling isn't there, and the faith becomes weaker.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 7:23 pm to Choctaw
quote:
This has been the case forever. It's not a sign of anything as much as you'd like it to be
He did not use it as support of his contention. He used it as an example to refute another poster's.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 7:25 pm to asurob1
quote:
Pretty sure that the NFL has better ratings then God on sundays.
Meh...church is out by the time the games start except on the west coast. And there's nothing but godless heathens over there anyways.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 7:26 pm to Mike da Tigah
quote:
Feeling and Experience
for some in the Catholic Church this is the case but the Churches theology of the liturgy understands that the primary function of the liturgy (which includes Mass, along with other things) is the worship of God and the Sanctification of the people.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 7:27 pm to BlackHelicopterPilot
quote:
He did not use it as support of his contention. He used it as an example to refute another poster's.
I would agree except for the fact that he said we are dying out and just haven't come to grips with "the truth" yet.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 7:27 pm to Choctaw
quote:
Meh...church is out by the time the games start except on the west coast. And there's nothing but godless heathens over there anyways.
Many times people's life center around the football schedule instead of the worship schedule especially in South Louisiana.
If there is a 6pm football game your vigil mass better not go long because people have a game to get to.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 7:30 pm to Choctaw
I'm not even sure what we are "arguing". i do not believe. But, I have on issue with those that do.
I have no reason to point and ridicule. Nor, do I get any sense of "victory" if the Church loses practitioners.
Nor, do I lament the fact (supposing it IS one).
The Bible is a Fairy tale...in MY belief. But, if it is extraordinarily meaningful to YOU...go with God
I have no reason to point and ridicule. Nor, do I get any sense of "victory" if the Church loses practitioners.
Nor, do I lament the fact (supposing it IS one).
The Bible is a Fairy tale...in MY belief. But, if it is extraordinarily meaningful to YOU...go with God
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