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Message
re: The battle of religion and freedom, between church and grace
Posted on 11/15/25 at 6:01 pm to Guntoter1
Posted on 11/15/25 at 6:01 pm to Guntoter1
quote:Exactly. We need pastors to faithfully preach the word. It is through the proclamation of the gospel that people come to Christ. Yet this the Bible that regulates the preaching.
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent?
2
Posted on 11/15/25 at 6:14 pm to Mike da Tigah
Saying your a Christian but voting for a cocksucker is wild.
Posted on 11/15/25 at 7:10 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Exactly. We need pastors to faithfully preach the word. It is through the proclamation of the gospel that people come to Christ. Yet this the Bible that regulates the preaching.
Yes the Bible should regulate the preaching
But
The preaching must also interpret the Bible.
Wouldn’t you agree?
Posted on 11/15/25 at 7:11 pm to Guntoter1
quote:They go hand in hand, as I see it. God gifts men who rightly handle the word of God, and gives the word of God to regulate those men, since they may be gifted but fallible.
Yes the Bible should regulate the preaching
But
The preaching must also interpret the Bible.
Wouldn’t you agree?
Posted on 11/15/25 at 7:11 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
We need pastors to faithfully preach the word.
Every denomination thinks the others are wrong.
"Preaching the word" apparently is subjective today.
Posted on 11/15/25 at 7:15 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
They go hand in hand, as I see it. God gifts men who rightly handle the word of God, and gives the word of God to regulate those men, since they may be gifted but fallible.
Agree.. but who regulates the preacher?
Posted on 11/15/25 at 7:16 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:Yes, because if they all believed exactly the same, there wouldn't be a need for division.
Every denomination thinks the others are wrong.
quote:The problem is that God has one message but we are sinful and do not understand it rightly because of that sin. "The word" is not subjective.
"Preaching the word" apparently is subjective today.
Posted on 11/15/25 at 7:19 pm to Guntoter1
quote:I believe that the Bible teaches Presbyterianism in terms of church government (see Acts 15). In Presbyterianism, the plurality of elders of a local congregation provide immediate regulation of the preaching, with the regional presbytery providing additional regulation in cases of complaint. The congregation can complain to the elders of the congregation if there is false teaching occurring.
Agree.. but who regulates the preacher?
ETA: the regulation at all levels is to be based on the confessional understanding of the scriptures.
This post was edited on 11/15/25 at 7:20 pm
Posted on 11/15/25 at 7:22 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
The problem is that God has one message but we are sinful and do not understand it rightly because of that sin. "The word" is not subjective.
Agree but we are not lost to guess which interpretation is correct.
Christ promised that he would not leave us orphans.
Posted on 11/15/25 at 7:25 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I believe that the Bible teaches Presbyterianism in terms of church government (see Acts 15). In Presbyterianism, the plurality of elders of a local congregation provide immediate regulation of the preaching, with the regional presbytery providing additional regulation in cases of complaint. The congregation can complain to the elders of the congregation if there is false teaching occurring. ETA: the regulation at all levels is to be based on the confessional understanding of the scriptures.
So in short… the church regulates the preacher. I agree.
Posted on 11/15/25 at 7:27 pm to Guntoter1
quote:And that's why He gave us the Spirit to guide us and the Church to instruct us.
Agree but we are not lost to guess which interpretation is correct.
Christ promised that he would not leave us orphans.
Posted on 11/15/25 at 7:31 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
And that's why He gave us the Spirit to guide us and the Church to instruct us.
Close… he gave the apostles the spirit to guide them.
He did not give the same teaching authority to the members.
The apostles had to constantly correct the members of the church.
Posted on 11/15/25 at 7:33 pm to Mike da Tigah
quote:
and then finally an AOG church that hung to about 95% of scripture
Stopped reading right there. AOG is a heretical cult full of pedophiles, abusers and wolves amongst the sheep.
Assemblies of God churches shielded accused predators — and allowed them to keep abusing children
This post was edited on 11/15/25 at 8:01 pm
Posted on 11/15/25 at 7:34 pm to Guntoter1
quote:And Paul had to correct Peter.
Close… he gave the apostles the spirit to guide them.
He did not give the same teaching authority to the members.
The apostles had to constantly correct the members of the church.
We don't have the Apostles. The Apostles gave the keys to the elders, who were appointed in every congregation. The elders are Christ's undershepherds, which is why I mentioned presbyterian government.
Posted on 11/15/25 at 7:40 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
nd Paul had to correct Peter. We don't have the Apostles. The Apostles gave the keys to the elders, who were appointed in every congregation. The elders are Christ's undershepherds, which is why I mentioned presbyterian government.
Correct!
Even the apostles were prone to error.
Only the church as a whole has infallible teaching authority.
So all we need to do now is decide which is the correct church.
Posted on 11/15/25 at 7:41 pm to Guntoter1
quote:I disagree. Nowhere are we told the the Church is infallible. We are told that the gates of Hell will not prevail against her, but that doesn't mean she is infallible. The only thing we are told that is "God-breathed" is the very word of God.
Correct!
Even the apostles were prone to error.
Only the church as a whole has infallible teaching authority.
So all we need to do now is decide which is the correct church.
Posted on 11/15/25 at 7:47 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I disagree. Nowhere are we told the the Church is infallible. We are told that the gates of Hell will not prevail against her, but that doesn't mean she is infallible. The only thing we are told that is "God-breathed" is the very word of God.
I will concede Christ never said I will leave you an infallible church.
You are correct
He said the gates will not prevail and he gave Peter the keys to heaven and the power to bind an to loose.
But wait …. The gates did prevail because the Catholic Church has apostasized
Posted on 11/15/25 at 7:51 pm to Guntoter1
quote:He actually gave the keys to all the Apostles. Mathew 18 has Jesus telling all the Apostles that they, too, have the power to bind and loose. The Apostles appointed Elders in the churches to carry on the teaching and ruling authority.
I will concede Christ never said I will leave you an infallible church.
You are correct
He said the gates will not prevail and he gave Peter the keys to heaven and the power to bind an to loose.
But wait …. The gates did prevail because the Catholic Church has apostasized
And no, the Church is the body of Christ, not the organizational structure based in Rome. I believe the visible Church is much bigger than that, and the visible Church will continue until Christ returns; Hell will not prevail against her.
Posted on 11/15/25 at 7:55 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
He actually gave the keys to all the Apostles. Mathew 18 has Jesus telling all the Apostles that they, too, have the power to bind and loose. The Apostles appointed Elders in the churches to carry on the teaching and ruling authority. And no, the Church is the body of Christ, not the organizational structure based in Rome. I believe the visible Church is much bigger than that, and the visible Church will continue until Christ returns; Hell will not prevail against her.
Please cite Mathew 18 and post it here so I can verify your statement.
Posted on 11/15/25 at 7:57 pm to Guntoter1
“15 If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19 Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”
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