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re: Texas getting it's own Sharia Law

Posted on 7/1/26 at 4:50 pm to
Posted by AUTigerking
Member since Jun 2020
666 posts
Posted on 7/1/26 at 4:50 pm to
quote:

There is evidence that a religious teacher of some sort existed 2000 years ago in the area of Judea that developed a cult following that continues to exist. There is no evidence that I've ever been shown that convinces me that he was a supernatural being.


That’s a little watered down, no?

Jesus of Nazareth existed - nearly unanimous (99%+ scholars)

He was crucified under Pontius Pilate’s Roman authority - nearly unanimous (99%+)

His followers believe they saw him alive after his death - very broad agreement (most disagreement is about the cause of their experience)

Empty tomb - broad agreement (most disagreement about WHY)
Posted by Stinger_1066
On a golf course
Member since Jul 2021
3076 posts
Posted on 7/2/26 at 11:18 am to
quote:

That’s a little watered down, no?

Jesus of Nazareth existed - nearly unanimous (99%+ scholars)

He was crucified under Pontius Pilate’s Roman authority - nearly unanimous (99%+)

His followers believe they saw him alive after his death - very broad agreement (most disagreement is about the cause of their experience)

Empty tomb - broad agreement (most disagreement about WHY)


Here is the bottom line for both you and Prodigal Son.

The religious views that you subscribe to are dictated by the circumstances of your birth. Particularly for someone like me who was born in 1960. Demographics have shifted somewhat since then, but these are the primary factors that dictate what the religious beliefs of most people will be.

1 - the religious beliefs of your parents, aka, indoctrination.

If your parents are both Baptist, then there is a 90% chance you will be Baptist for the duration of your life.

If your parents are both Muslim, then the odds are even greater that you will be Muslim for the duration of your life.

2 - the country you are born in. Further indoctrination.

If you are born in the Middle East, Iran or Pakistan, there is a 95% chance that you will remain Muslim for the remainder of your life.

If you are born in the Americas or a western European country, there is a 90% chance that you will remain Christian for the remainder of your life.

If you are born in India, there is a 95% chance that you will remain Hindu for the remainder of your life, in spite of the fact that Britain forced Christianity upon your ancestors.

If you are born in Africa, there is a 95% chance that you will remain Muslim for the remainder of your life, in spite of the fact that western European countries forced Christianity upon your ancestors.

I was born into a family that did not attend church and where religion played no part. There was no indoctrination. And yet, my brothers and I all turned out to be productive and law-abiding members of western society. There is no need for a belief in a god in our lives. We know what is right and what is wrong, and are not burdened by the weight of any sense of disappointing a creator or savior.

I know that is a difficult for those of you who were indoctrinated from birth to comprehend.



This post was edited on 7/2/26 at 11:21 am
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
47172 posts
Posted on 7/2/26 at 11:18 am to
quote:

Yes, vassal state. Their citizens weren't being counted for taxation purposes is what I was getting at.
The Bible doesn't say the counting/census was for taxation. I gave a possible option where the census being spoken about was not for taxation.

quote:

Herod died in 4BC and there are no historical records of a Roman census happening in Judea prior to the 6AD census.
As I mentioned previously, the date of Herod's death is based on Josephus. It's possible that he was simply wrong about when he died, because he was speaking about an eclipse being associated with it, and a more likely eclipse would have been a few years later.

Regarding the lack of records, that's an argument from silence. If the census wasn't for taxation like the 6 AD census, then we shouldn't necessarily expect it to be recorded the same way.

quote:

Moreover, there are no records of a census requiring you to travel to your place of birth to be counted. That would be so disruptive for a society during that time its silly to suggest Rome, the super efficient empire it was, to want its taxable subjects displaced/not working for weeks, just so they could be counted. Thats not how censuses work and its clearly the hard of the author trying to make a prophecy fit
As I mentioned, the movement could have been a Jewish tradition rather than a strict requirement by the Romans.

Moreover, there are no records of a census requiring you to travel to your place of birth to be counted. That would be so disruptive for a society during that time its silly to suggest Rome, the super efficient empire it was, to want its taxable subjects displaced/not working for weeks, just so they could be counted. Thats not how censuses work and its clearly the hard of the author trying to make a prophecy fit.

quote:

If your argument is that the chance there is no contradiction is some number above zero then yeah, maybe Bigfoot created a time machine and hid the evidence of this other census. There's a chance that happened, however small. You can try and hang your hat on that tiny hook if you like.
I know you're trying to show this is absurd because you think it's very unlikely that any explanation is what actually happened, but my point is merely to show that there are plausible explanations (and not even speaking to miracles) as to why the narrative is not contradictory. You can reject the narrative because you don't believe it, but you can't claim it's a logical contradiction as long as there are possible explanations that remove the contradiction.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
47172 posts
Posted on 7/2/26 at 11:24 am to
quote:

The presence of a supernatural being just adds to the complexity. Where did that supernatural being come from? There is just no need for that component other than for those people who "need" an explanation. I don't need an explanation. I'm only here for a very brief period of time.
I think you do need an explanation, because it's impacting what you believe to be true.

All effects must have a cause. The question is not where God came from, but if He's an effect or a cause.

In addition, we're talking about the natural and material world when we talk about the universe. That which is natural needs an explanation as to where it came from, because the natural is not eternal. God is supernatural, and therefore while the universe needs a cause, God doesn't. God is outside of space and time, and He is immaterial, which is what is needed to create space, time, and matter.

So we can't just push the question of where the universe came from back to God, as if He needs a beginning. He's operating on a completely different level than creation.
Posted by tommy2tone1999
St. George, LA
Member since Sep 2008
7818 posts
Posted on 7/2/26 at 11:25 am to
quote:

How many copies of the Holy Bible have been located amidst the ruins of ancient Egypt, Greece, Persia or Rome?


You mean former empires that no longer exist? Kind of proves the point
This post was edited on 7/2/26 at 11:26 am
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
47172 posts
Posted on 7/2/26 at 11:27 am to
quote:

quote:

Leave the discussion to Foo, you don't have the mental hardware for this conversation

I tell you what, how about you ask Foo if I can hang
I think you're better at explaining these things than I am, and I appreciate the help.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
47172 posts
Posted on 7/2/26 at 11:45 am to
quote:

Here is the bottom line for both you and Prodigal Son.

The religious views that you subscribe to are dictated by the circumstances of your birth. Particularly for someone like me who was born in 1960. Demographics have shifted somewhat since then, but these are the primary factors that dictate what the religious beliefs of most people will be.
There are many Christians who were born into homes, towns/villages, and countries where Christianity is a minority religion because of missions work. That's one of the last commands Jesus gave His disciples before ascending to Heaven: go and make disciples of the nations. Missions work is an important aspect of Christianity and always has been, which is why it has spread all over the world.

You're right that there are many who are born, raised, and died without ever hearing about Christianity, and yet Christians believe they died with lack of knowledge of the truth, not because the truth isn't actually true. Ignorance is not evidence that Christianity isn't true, or that geography determines truth.

quote:

I was born into a family that did not attend church and where religion played no part. There was no indoctrination. And yet, my brothers and I all turned out to be productive and law-abiding members of western society. There is no need for a belief in a god in our lives. We know what is right and what is wrong, and are not burdened by the weight of any sense of disappointing a creator or savior.

I know that is a difficult for those of you who were indoctrinated from birth to comprehend.
Ironically, you seem to be condemning yourself here. You were not born into a religious family who had little to no value in religion, and now here you are, being non-religious, having ascribed little to no value in religion. You are indoctrinated, as well, but not by formal religion.

In spite of that, you are on a forum where people like myself share the truth about the gospel of Jesus Christ, and you still reject it. You are not without excuse. You need to turn away from your rejection of your Creator, and believe that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, obeyed the requirements of the law of God on our behalf, and died to pay the penalty our sins deserve. He was raised from the dead as a validation that His work was accomplished and satisfactory to the Father, and now sits in judgement from Heaven.

Even though you have been indoctrinated as an atheist or agnostic (which is the same thing), the truth is before you right now: repent and believe.
Posted by Stinger_1066
On a golf course
Member since Jul 2021
3076 posts
Posted on 7/2/26 at 12:38 pm to
quote:

So we can't just push the question of where the universe came from back to God, as if He needs a beginning. He's operating on a completely different level than creation.


Of course he is. That is such a simplistic cop out.

You do a good job of arguing your points regarding scripture. But you totally took the easy road on this one.
This post was edited on 7/2/26 at 12:40 pm
Posted by Stinger_1066
On a golf course
Member since Jul 2021
3076 posts
Posted on 7/2/26 at 12:52 pm to
quote:

ronically, you seem to be condemning yourself here. You were not born into a religious family who had little to no value in religion, and now here you are, being non-religious, having ascribed little to no value in religion. You are indoctrinated, as well, but not by formal religion.

In spite of that, you are on a forum where people like myself share the truth about the gospel of Jesus Christ, and you still reject it. You are not without excuse. You need to turn away from your rejection of your Creator, and believe that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, obeyed the requirements of the law of God on our behalf, and died to pay the penalty our sins deserve. He was raised from the dead as a validation that His work was accomplished and satisfactory to the Father, and now sits in judgement from Heaven.

Even though you have been indoctrinated as an atheist or agnostic (which is the same thing), the truth is before you right now: repent and believe.


You have a much different definition of "indoctrination" than I do.

Indoctrination, per my understanding, is when people in a position of authority over you force feed you information to the point that you succumb to it.

At what age did your parents begin forcing you to sit next to them in a church pew every Sunday?

I was never subjected to that. I was allowed to develop my religious beliefs without any formal teaching. 10-year-olds have amazing power to discern when they aren't being subjected to the pressure of parental persuasion.
Posted by Azkiger
Member since Nov 2016
28491 posts
Posted on 7/2/26 at 1:40 pm to
You're so tiring. I'm convinced you wait several days to respond to try and sneak in the last word.

quote:

It's possible that he was simply wrong about when he died...


The super specifics actually don't matter.

Covid happened after 9/11, the specific dates don't actually matter.

The Roman census by Quirinius happened after Herod's death. Period. End of story.

Thats a gospel contradiction.
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