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re: Tariffs not bringing in what trump said they would….
Posted on 4/29/25 at 11:58 pm to northshorebamaman
Posted on 4/29/25 at 11:58 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:Why are you people acting like these countries are static and not capable of adjusting? Ever heard of Japan?
I have asked for an example on how 'balanced trade' is possible with a country with like Indonesia
quote:Here is yet another strawman. Why can't it mean that they aren't slapping absurdly insanely ridiculous tariffs on us without us retaliating?
It would indicate that the citizens of both countries have equal purchasing power
4
Posted on 4/29/25 at 11:59 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
Why are you people acting like these countries are static and not capable of adjusting? Ever heard of Japan?
We don't have the luxury of time to wait for these countries to catch up
Posted on 4/30/25 at 12:00 am to Powerman
quote:Whoa. Why would we keep doing that? If we get a good faith negotiated deal that is balanced, the tariffs can drop. Let's start with getting people to the table, which is what is happening. No reasonable person thinks that's a bad thing
But if we import from the poor nations and then add the cost input of a tariff
quote:You have an extremely warped view of this situation
It's not a particularly difficult concept.
Posted on 4/30/25 at 12:01 am to Powerman
quote:I did not describe your stupid strawman caricature. Get a clue
You said it happened in the past
Posted on 4/30/25 at 12:02 am to somethingdifferent
quote:No. I'm saying that in order to achieve balanced trade, which was one of several conflicting goals in the post I responded to, with a country like Indonesia, we'll have to 1. Either match their exports with our own, or 2. decrease our imports from them.
You're implying that if the US repatriates business, that we will be relying on exports.
Indonesia primarily supplies us with cheap, low cost goods from low paying industries no one, not even Trump is clamoring to return to the US, like dyes and cheap textiles. The per capita income is under 5k a year. We have a trade surplus because we have more money to buy from them than they have to buy from us. That's a good thing.
Posted on 4/30/25 at 12:03 am to Powerman
quote:
We don't have the luxury of time to wait for these countries to catch up
Says who? What does this even mean? If we get them to the table, negotiate a relatively fair deal and then start working together in reciprocal trade, how in the h e double hockey sticks do you imaging that's WORSE than where we are? You need help
Posted on 4/30/25 at 12:03 am to dnm3305
quote:
PLUS no tax on tips and OT
I'm still waiting on an explanation for why this is good policy. I have yet to get one. It is naked pandering.
Posted on 4/30/25 at 12:05 am to somethingdifferent
quote:
Why are you people acting like these countries are static and not capable of adjusting?
Because with VERY limited exception, there are practically no nations on earth that can afford to buy more from us than we buy from them.
We're the third largest nation on Earth, and by far the richest relative to our consumer goods spending.
This post was edited on 4/30/25 at 12:06 am
Posted on 4/30/25 at 12:06 am to somethingdifferent
quote:Addressed in the post you responded to:
Why are you people acting like these countries are static and not capable of adjusting? Ever heard of Japan?
quote:
. It would indicate that the citizens of both countries have equal purchasing power, which, unless you're expecting the Indonesian economy to expand to equal ours anytime soon, is hardly a good thing.
Are you actually expecting their economy to rival ours in your lifetime?
Posted on 4/30/25 at 12:07 am to northshorebamaman
quote:False dichotomy. You're basically saying the only way they can survive is for them to maintain a stupidly unfair trade imbalance.
Either match their exports with our own, or 2. decrease our imports from them.
quote:Again, you're looking at this myopically. It's not ONLY about the goods themselves. If that were the case then why are other countries levying insane tariffs against us? It's because we negotiated horrifically bad quid pro quo deals where some individuals benefitted but the US lost out as a whole. Trump has been trying to drain the swamp and make america solvent again. The tariffs are one negotiating tactic and you people are freaking out over something that is currently working
We have a trade surplus because we have more money to buy from them than they have to buy from us
Posted on 4/30/25 at 12:08 am to somethingdifferent
quote:
Says who? What does this even mean? If we get them to the table, negotiate a relatively fair deal and then start working together in reciprocal trade, how in the h e double hockey sticks do you imaging that's WORSE than where we are?
You need help
Having free trade with Indonesia would be a good thing
As we currently run a trade deficit with them applying tariffs to their imports hurts us more than it helps us.
Posted on 4/30/25 at 12:09 am to somethingdifferent
quote:
You're basically saying the only way they can survive is for them to maintain a stupidly unfair trade imbalance.
That's the thing...only you and MAGA parrots view it as stupidly unfair
Posted on 4/30/25 at 12:10 am to somethingdifferent
quote:
The tariffs are one negotiating tactic and you people are freaking out over something that is currently working
Posted on 4/30/25 at 12:12 am to Powerman
quote:
Having free trade with Indonesia would be a good thing
As we currently run a trade deficit with them applying tariffs to their imports hurts us more than it helps us.
We import Wal Mart clothes, palm oil, and tires/rubber from Indonesia primarily. We don't have the any relevant amount of the latter two.
And there is simply no market, workforce, or interest in producing wal mart apparel in the United States.
"Trade deficit" is such a stupid thing to fixate on. It is highly nation-dependent. We will always buy more from under-developed nations than they buy from us. Being the most economically developed nation in world history of any relevant size pretty much ensures that we will run trade deficits.
This post was edited on 4/30/25 at 12:13 am
Posted on 4/30/25 at 12:15 am to Indefatigable
It seems obvious that some battles aren't worth fighting
Picking on developing countries like Indonesia simply because we run a trade deficit with them is absurd
It doesn't mean they're "ripping us off"
Picking on developing countries like Indonesia simply because we run a trade deficit with them is absurd
It doesn't mean they're "ripping us off"
Posted on 4/30/25 at 12:19 am to somethingdifferent
quote:
Ever heard of Japan?
This doesn't even make sense.
Need I remind you of the result of Japan's hyper-industrialization in the latter part of the 19th century and early 20th century? Japan, and to a lesser extent South Korea, are exceptions. None of the OSEAN nations are capable of what those two nations accomplished in the 20th century.
Posted on 4/30/25 at 12:20 am to Powerman
quote:
Picking on developing countries like Indonesia simply because we run a trade deficit with them is absurd
It doesn't mean they're "ripping us off"
It all circles back to this bizarre approach of attacking nations we have good relations with instead of the nations that we actually have a problem with.
That being said, we'll always have a trade deficit with China too. We're rich. Rich people buy more things.
To the contrary we should be doing everything possible to lure Indonesia into our fold. Same with Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam, etc. Instead we're just forcing them to take Beijing's investments.
This post was edited on 4/30/25 at 12:23 am
Posted on 4/30/25 at 12:21 am to Indefatigable
Trump might be the biggest psyop in American history. We have people arguing to the death that increased taxes on Americans are the way to prosperity. Under no circumstances would these people have ever previously argued this.
Posted on 4/30/25 at 12:23 am to somethingdifferent
quote:Don't construct what I'm "basically saying", as you've been wrong every time. Respond to what I actually said. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt on your willingness to argue in good faith, and that ain't it.
False dichotomy. You're basically saying the only way they can survive is for them to maintain a stupidly unfair trade imbalance.
What I said is that a trade imbalance with a poor country like Indonesia is due to us having lots of money to spend and them having very little. When Indonesia drops the tariffs on our goods, do you foresee the increased revenue from our minuscule exports to Indonesia resulting in a fatter wallet for the average American, after their loss of access to cheap goods?
Especially considering that those cheap goods are only possible because of dismal wages and state subsidies (which is their government paying their own industries just so they can sell us cheaper shite, essentially paying some of you own cost to buy it)?
Posted on 4/30/25 at 12:24 am to Powerman
quote:
We have people arguing to the death that increased taxes on Americans are the way to prosperity.
There are people here, dare I say the majority, who will vehemently deny the fact that tariffs are anything other than a sales tax.
Someone somewhere has convinced them that there is a bucket at every port or point of entry nationwide where importers drop money that will fill the Treasury coffers.
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