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Taibbi - Yes, Both Sides (are at fault in the "illegal orders" matter).
Posted on 11/26/25 at 8:16 am
Posted on 11/26/25 at 8:16 am
quote:
Days before Thanksgiving, when I must be like millions of Americans in just wanting to reach five days of permission to ignore the madness, the country is unraveling. Unlike most of us, who will look for ways this week to set aside differences for the good of our families, our political leaders are bitterly, senselessly escalating. American politics has become a suicidal farce, in which two teams locked in mutual hatred keep trying to finish the “guilty” side off, but instead end up cheek-to-cheek, dancing us all toward the cliff-edge of history. The idiotic framework has never been more evident than in the fast-worsening “illegal orders” crisis, where both sides are clearly at fault:
quote:
When ABC News Sunday interviewed Slotkin, anchor Martha Raddatz elicited several damning admissions. (Incidentally, the slog back toward occasional difficult questions for both parties by news networks is one of the few encouraging developments of this past horrible year.) First, Raddatz interrupted after Slotkin claimed Trump “asked his secretary of defense and his chairman of the Joint Chiefs to ‘shoot at their legs’ at unarmed protesters,” reminding the ex-CIA official-turned-Senator that though this was mentioned in former Defense chief Mark Esper’s A Sacred Oath, Trump “didn’t exactly say that. [Esper] said the president suggested that, but they were never ordered to do that.” Raddatz then pressed further, asking, “Do you believe President Trump has issued any illegal orders?”
Slotkin offered a curious reply: “To my knowledge, I am not aware of things that are illegal.” When Raddatz kept after her, Slotkin mentioned “legal gymnastics that are going on with these Caribbean strikes and everything related to Venezuela,” then talked about “the use of U.S. military on American shores, on our city, in our cities and in our streets,” where “people in uniformed military get nervous, get stressed, shoot at American civilians.” Raddatz from here asked the obvious question, namely that Slotkin sounded like a person describing murky or unclear situations, so “couldn’t you have done a video saying just what you just said?” In other words, if you’re unsure if something is legal, here’s the proper procedure. That would be the truly apolitical, public service announcement version of a “You can refuse illegal orders” video.
That’s not the only message they wanted to send, however, as became clear when Slotkin laid out “Don’t Give Up The Ship” in greater detail:
I mean, going back to Nuremberg, right, that, “Well, they told me to do it, that’s why I murdered people,” is not an excuse. If you look at popular culture, like, you watch, you know, “A Few Good Men,” like we have plenty of examples since World War II, in Vietnam, where people were told to follow illegal orders, and they did it, and they were prosecuted for it.
Invoking a movie as if it were a real-world example of being “told to follow illegal orders” exposed the cynicism of Slotkin and Kelly’s ploy. They could have mentioned specifics in the video, explaining what to do about the administration’s drug boat bombing campaign, under a cloud after the resignation of Southern Command chief Admiral Alvin Holsey, or the deployment of National Guard troops to streets of Democratic-run cities, already interrupted in some cases by judges.
Steering so far from specifics that the Code Red from A Few Good Men became the example, though, invited the entire population of military and intelligence officers to ponder their orders, not just in terms of legality but the potential to be “prosecuted for it,” as Slotkin put it. Underneath its lawyered veneer, the video was a clear message to the rank-and-file that they might be Nuremberged by a future administration, one presumably run by a party already comparing this one to the Third Reich.
quote:
Trump handled all of this in Trumpian fashion. He tweeted — excuse me, Truthed — a series of whacked-out messages. “SEDITIOUS BEHAVIOR, punishable by DEATH!” Then: “This is really bad, and Dangerous to our Country. Their words cannot be allowed to stand. SEDITIOUS BEHAVIOR FROM TRAITORS!!! LOCK THEM UP??? President DJT.” Then: “It’s called SEDITIOUS BEHAVIOR AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL. Each one of these traitors to our Country should be ARRESTED AND PUT ON TRIAL.” Time passed, and there was a re-truth of “HANG THEM GEORGE WASHINGTON WOULD!” Truth Social is often a beyond-bizarre experience, but it’s not easy for any sane person to scroll past ads for the goofiest Santa sweaters and the AVP Badlands game and then digest a Trump re-Truth like the following:
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Not exactly “Speak softly, and carry a big stick.” The old saw about “acting presidential” may be overblown, but at a moment when any observant person has to be worried about this political situation spiraling out of control, you can’t have the president joking about hanging enemies and “stacking traitors like firewood.” The easiest part of Trump’s second-term equation was cutting back on saying things that scare the crap out of people, and he either can’t be bothered to do it or else he can’t control his impulses, neither of which is a reassuring thing to know about the commander of a potentially planet-destroying military force.
quote:
Slotkin and Kelly may be playing a dangerous dice game with continuity of government, but they didn’t tell the military to “defy the president.” They said something vaguer, but true: “You can refuse illegal orders.” Vance’s attempt at law-by-syllogism was a missed viral dunk that put words in Slotkin’s mouth and reinforced the general impression that no one on either side understands the gravity of this tightrope moment. We’re fast becoming the kind of country where things like this can go very wrong quickly. The way an old-school president would deal with “Don’t Give Up The Ship” would be to ignore it/them as buzzing flies for now, and engage in a quiet mop-up and nut-crushing later. It’s not like this crew doesn’t have other things to do, like end two wars instead of starting a new one.
If the tone of this article feels different from some others of late it’s because I have plans to return from Thanksgiving guns-ablazing for a long Racket project that seems guaranteed to make me one of the most hated people in media, if not the most hated. In an effort to make clear I’ll be doing this for no reason beyond spite and the fact that the coming material is true, I’m embracing the “both sides” trope, long despised as a fetish for disgraced old-heads. Conventional wisdom has insisted for over ten years there are no more “both sides” stories, that “moral clarity” demands we highlight the sins of the wronger side and not traffic in “false equivalencies.” Demonstrably however there are two sides in American politics, and it would be better if they fought less and less dangerously. For the sake of the holiday, can’t we also laugh at them both? Why are there so few people who still do?
LINK
Posted on 11/26/25 at 8:22 am to Bunk Moreland
So, it depends on what your definition of “is” is all over again.
Got to hand it to the Dems- they are masters at the word games. And, they have teams of lawyers and activist judges in their pockets to help them get away with it, too.
Got to hand it to the Dems- they are masters at the word games. And, they have teams of lawyers and activist judges in their pockets to help them get away with it, too.
Posted on 11/26/25 at 8:23 am to Bunk Moreland
No, only one side messed up. Nice of you and others trying to blame trump for their actions though
Posted on 11/26/25 at 8:25 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:
The easiest part of Trump’s second-term equation was cutting back on saying things that scare the crap out of people
People still don't understand how Trump uses the "crazy man" routine as a negotiation tool.
Posted on 11/26/25 at 9:34 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:
Trump handled all of this in Trumpian fashion. He tweeted — excuse me, Truthed — a series of whacked-out messages.
What a fraud. posing as a reporter
The DIMs straight up advised the military to decide individually which orders to follow. And Trumps supposed "fault" in all this is that he strongly came out against that?
Is this Taibbi guy retarded?
In the words of that great intergalactic law enforcer J, "Dont start nothin', wont be nothin"
Posted on 11/26/25 at 9:46 am to RobbBobb
I respect Taibbi and he's not wrong here. It just feels a little too much like a "muh both sides" argument, where the bad intentions of the initiator are somehow offset by the emotional ham-handedness of the response.
Are they both childish? Of course. But why the frick are we even here?
Are they both childish? Of course. But why the frick are we even here?
Posted on 11/26/25 at 9:49 am to Bunk Moreland
Taibbi is a lib that parades as a moderate because the DNC tried to destroy him. He generally calls balls and strikes though. Having said all that, I didn’t read all that shite.
Posted on 11/26/25 at 9:54 am to Placekicker
quote:
Got to hand it to the Dems- they are masters at the word games. And, they have teams of lawyers and activist judges in their pockets to help them get away with it, too.
Slotkin is former CIA.
She has the entire state department and 75% of the intel community helping her run a color revolution so no it’s not surprising she knew exactly the verbiage to use to provoke a response without committing sedition at least to the standard it would take to convict her in a court room.
Posted on 11/26/25 at 9:58 am to Bunk Moreland
surely it's occurred to you by now skunk that nobody gives a schit about what you think about anything.
the fact that you continue to post is not a testament to your persistence but rather to your futile delusion.
the fact that you continue to post is not a testament to your persistence but rather to your futile delusion.
This post was edited on 11/26/25 at 9:59 am
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