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Stark quote worth noting by Ayn Rand (Communism:Socialism)
Posted on 6/23/21 at 12:10 am
Posted on 6/23/21 at 12:10 am
"There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposed to enslave men by force, socialism by vote. It's merely the difference between murder and suicide."
Go research "DSA". Connect dots.
Ayn Rand was a Russian-American writer and philosopher. She is known for her fiction and for developing a philosophical system she named Objectivism. Born and educated in Russia, she moved to the United States in 1926.
Wiki
Go research "DSA". Connect dots.
Ayn Rand was a Russian-American writer and philosopher. She is known for her fiction and for developing a philosophical system she named Objectivism. Born and educated in Russia, she moved to the United States in 1926.
Wiki
6
Posted on 6/23/21 at 12:14 am to TNoon
Also an atheist. Interesting insights but in the end, nihilism.
Posted on 6/23/21 at 12:19 am to Alyosha
To be atheist isn't nihilistic.
Many atheists find meaning in their relationships and in improving their worlds.
Clearly God still had something of value to communicate through her work.
Many atheists find meaning in their relationships and in improving their worlds.
Clearly God still had something of value to communicate through her work.
This post was edited on 6/23/21 at 12:20 am
Posted on 6/23/21 at 12:37 am to joeyjoejoeshabadoo
Common grace insights
Posted on 6/23/21 at 12:45 am to TNoon
quote:
"There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposed to enslave men by force, socialism by vote. It's merely the difference between murder and suicide."
As much as I hate to disagree with a Russian political philosopher who actually lived in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the Bolshevik Revolution did not occur via the ballot box.
Communism, as defined by Marx, is a State-less society and has really only ever existed at the local level - Hippie communes, co-ops, etc.
China is not a communist country. The USSR was not a communist republic. A State designed, mandated and controlled society is socialism.
Communism is the goal of socialism but the retarded provocateurs of the latter lack sufficient understanding of human nature to understand why socialism never works.
Which is why State force is always required. And why socialism always fails.
This post was edited on 6/23/21 at 12:50 am
Posted on 6/23/21 at 12:56 am to Alyosha
quote:
Also an atheist. Interesting insights but in the end, nihilism
Choosing to do good for fellow man > doing good because a mythical higher-power commands it.
Posted on 6/23/21 at 3:07 am to LSU2a
quote:
Choosing to do good for fellow man > doing good because a mythical higher-power commands it.
There’s a much more in-depth conversation to be had here which probably won’t prove very fruitful in a TD thread.
I’ll just point out that, in a universe with no God, your value statement here is mere opinion and completely subjective anyways.
And you may not realize it, but your preference as to which “good” is better is laced with the Christian ethos (though not necessarily exclusive to Christianity).
This post was edited on 6/23/21 at 3:11 am
Posted on 6/23/21 at 4:04 am to TNoon
And the game the left loves to play is trying to distinguish between the two. They say if you don’t understand the different communism and socialism, you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about, And then trying to dismiss your opinions out right.
This post was edited on 6/23/21 at 4:05 am
Posted on 6/23/21 at 4:54 am to AURaptor
Communism: socialism with a gun.
Posted on 6/23/21 at 6:05 am to RantardoMontalbon
quote:dude, you are an idiot. socialism is a form of economics.
A State designed, mandated and controlled society is socialism.
Posted on 6/23/21 at 6:58 am to RantardoMontalbon
quote:
the retarded provocateurs of the latter lack sufficient understanding of human nature to understand why socialism never works.
THIS cannot be overstated.
Socialists never understand that there will always be those who want more and for things to be better. They will not be satisfied to have what everyone else has.
In the end, socialism is little more than shared misery since no government can give everyone what they want. They're lucky if they get what they need.
Of course, the above does not apply to the socialist leaders. They will always live like royalty.
Posted on 6/23/21 at 7:07 am to mtntiger
quote:
They will not be satisfied to have what everyone else has.
That is just human nature. That is why all systems eventually fail. IMO
We can never be satisfied. If we are satisfied, we end up in a slum.
Posted on 6/23/21 at 7:08 am to TNoon
"The goal of socialism is communism" - V.I. Lenin
Posted on 6/23/21 at 8:05 pm to UGATiger26
quote:
I’ll just point out that, in a universe with no God, your value statement here is mere opinion and completely subjective anyways.
Define "God" because there is a vast amount of possiblities that you are likely not accounting for.
quote:
And you may not realize it, but your preference as to which “good” is better is laced with the Christian ethos (though not necessarily exclusive to Christianity).
The "Christian ethos" has evolved with society. Besides that there is no universal Christian ethos whether through time or from one individual or group to the other.
Posted on 6/23/21 at 8:08 pm to RantardoMontalbon
quote:
the Bolshevik Revolution did not occur via the ballot box.
perhaps, but that doesn't mean that you can't vote your way in
but, you'll have to shoot your way out
Posted on 6/23/21 at 9:05 pm to TrueTiger
delete
This post was edited on 6/23/21 at 9:13 pm
Posted on 6/23/21 at 9:12 pm to arcalades
quote:
A State designed, mandated and controlled society is socialism.
dude, you are an idiot. socialism is a form of economics.
so is slavery.
Using economics as a tool of coercion is still coercion.
Any form of "Economics" that begins with the premise that the Fruits of My Labor are not My Own is just a different fruit off the same rotten tree.
It always entertains me to see the historical loathing between the communists and the facists, considering their only true difference is who gets my stuff
Being a realist and recognizing the flawed nature of Man, and therefore the futility of a pure Libertarian or Objective society, I'd gladly settle for the next best thing: a limited constitutional government with foundational principles recognizing my individual right to pursue happiness and live my life as I see fit.
And as long as were dreaming, fill that society with fellow citizens that are as pleased and grateful as I am for being so fortunate.
Instead of. . . you know. . .
A State designed, mandated and controlled society is socialism.
dude, you are an idiot. socialism is a form of economics.
so is slavery.
Using economics as a tool of coercion is still coercion.
Any form of "Economics" that begins with the premise that the Fruits of My Labor are not My Own is just a different fruit off the same rotten tree.
It always entertains me to see the historical loathing between the communists and the facists, considering their only true difference is who gets my stuff
Being a realist and recognizing the flawed nature of Man, and therefore the futility of a pure Libertarian or Objective society, I'd gladly settle for the next best thing: a limited constitutional government with foundational principles recognizing my individual right to pursue happiness and live my life as I see fit.
And as long as were dreaming, fill that society with fellow citizens that are as pleased and grateful as I am for being so fortunate.
Instead of. . . you know. . .
This post was edited on 8/24/21 at 8:22 pm
Posted on 6/23/21 at 9:15 pm to luvdoc
luvdoc
Shady Thicket, Down South
Member since May 2005
522 posts
Beautifully said.
Post more.
Shady Thicket, Down South
Member since May 2005
522 posts
Beautifully said.
Post more.
Posted on 6/23/21 at 9:15 pm to TNoon
She is right. Communism and socialism is pretty much the same thing, only slighty different. Both of them have the state as the almighty authority, ruler of all.
There are really just 2 main ideologies. Collectivism and Individualism. All other "isms" is a splinter from them.
There are really just 2 main ideologies. Collectivism and Individualism. All other "isms" is a splinter from them.
Posted on 6/23/21 at 10:01 pm to mtntiger
Three thoughts.
The irony being that Marx, as well as his predecessors, advocated socialism as a morally virtuous economic class struggle between those who have and those who do not. Forgotten or dismissed in this reasoning is that the person who most wants the value of his own labor is the guy who works with his hands for a living. Such as the guy who would take home more pay but for taxes.
I'll tread very lightly into the ongoing religiosity debate in this thread about political philosophy to say this: Most young people are confronted at some point with the question about whether they believe or not. Some are born into circumstances and believing is simply accepted without question, some consider the decision for awhile and then make the leap of faith, others consider the decision for awhile and then decide that they don't believe. I'm in the later group and used to consider myself an atheist.
One of many beautiful things about America is that the right to believe, or not, is literally written into our Constitution as a protected personal freedom.
That said, in the 2000s I moved from atheist back to agnostic because "atheism" is no longer about not believing in God but about being virulently anti-God. Not unlike socialism. God does not co-exist with socialism.
Finally, *pulls on whisky glass* I think there is an interesting discussion to be had about human nature as it relates to political governance. To understand what government should be one first must have underlying assumptions about the nature of the governed. This conversation played out during the Enlightenment in writings by folks such as Locke and Hobbes. Our Founders got it right when they adopted Locke's general thesis that the only legitimate purpose of government was to secure the life, liberty, and property of the citizens.
Then I watched revolutionaries burn down cities last Summer and it makes me wonder if I've been overestimating the nature of my fellow man.
quote:
Socialists never understand that there will always be those who want more and for things to be better.
The irony being that Marx, as well as his predecessors, advocated socialism as a morally virtuous economic class struggle between those who have and those who do not. Forgotten or dismissed in this reasoning is that the person who most wants the value of his own labor is the guy who works with his hands for a living. Such as the guy who would take home more pay but for taxes.
quote:
The Atheism v. Religion Debate.
I'll tread very lightly into the ongoing religiosity debate in this thread about political philosophy to say this: Most young people are confronted at some point with the question about whether they believe or not. Some are born into circumstances and believing is simply accepted without question, some consider the decision for awhile and then make the leap of faith, others consider the decision for awhile and then decide that they don't believe. I'm in the later group and used to consider myself an atheist.
One of many beautiful things about America is that the right to believe, or not, is literally written into our Constitution as a protected personal freedom.
That said, in the 2000s I moved from atheist back to agnostic because "atheism" is no longer about not believing in God but about being virulently anti-God. Not unlike socialism. God does not co-exist with socialism.
quote:
Human Nature
Finally, *pulls on whisky glass* I think there is an interesting discussion to be had about human nature as it relates to political governance. To understand what government should be one first must have underlying assumptions about the nature of the governed. This conversation played out during the Enlightenment in writings by folks such as Locke and Hobbes. Our Founders got it right when they adopted Locke's general thesis that the only legitimate purpose of government was to secure the life, liberty, and property of the citizens.
Then I watched revolutionaries burn down cities last Summer and it makes me wonder if I've been overestimating the nature of my fellow man.
This post was edited on 6/23/21 at 10:17 pm
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