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re: Special Ed...shocking statistic

Posted on 6/27/24 at 3:21 pm to
Posted by 4cubbies
Member since Sep 2008
60698 posts
Posted on 6/27/24 at 3:21 pm to
quote:

Don't think ADHD alone is going to land a lot of kids in special education.


In LA it’s classified as OHI (other health impairment) or at least it was when I was a sped teacher. Kids usually just get 504 plans for accommodations like extra time for tests or small group testing instead of whole IEPs for that.
Posted by imjustafatkid
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
64589 posts
Posted on 6/27/24 at 3:57 pm to
quote:

Obviously, for you there isn't.


Nope, they just don't exist. Gifted kids get no services. They have replaced it with "enrichment" which is simply "the smart kids." "Smart" and "gifted" are not the same.

ETA: When I was in school some 20-30 years ago, they did have gifted classes, and yes I was in them. Gifted kids HATE enrichment classes because they are BORING to people of that caliber.
This post was edited on 6/27/24 at 3:59 pm
Posted by RCDfan1950
United States
Member since Feb 2007
39366 posts
Posted on 6/27/24 at 3:57 pm to
quote:

When I was in HS it was about 1%. What happened? They never explained the explosion. Anyone know?


They whooped our asses, Zach...very painful. We shut the rebellious child stuff down, because the pain wasn't worth it.
Posted by RCDfan1950
United States
Member since Feb 2007
39366 posts
Posted on 6/27/24 at 4:00 pm to
Addendum to my post: We tolerated the pain because we knew they love us. It's the love that is missing today, in many instances. Inflict pain on an unlove child and you'll get a ruthless, sociopathic heathen who hates life and everybody.
Posted by BamaAggiemom
Member since Aug 2019
539 posts
Posted on 6/27/24 at 4:02 pm to
I have a kid with a severe brain injury and we never got any money.
Posted by Green Chili Tiger
Lurking the Tin Foil Hat Board
Member since Jul 2009
50663 posts
Posted on 6/27/24 at 5:02 pm to
quote:

Nope, they just don't exist. Gifted kids get no services. They have replaced it with "enrichment" which is simply "the smart kids." "Smart" and "gifted" are not the same.


Not sure what state you live in but this is completely wrong. (except the part about gifted and enrichment being two different things)

Source: Both my kids were in gifted, my mother-in-law, sister-in-law, and one of my daughters are gifted teachers, and one of my sisters is a teacher and the other is a superintendent of schools.
Posted by 4cubbies
Member since Sep 2008
60698 posts
Posted on 6/27/24 at 5:15 pm to
quote:

I have a kid with a severe brain injury and we never got any money.


How’s he/she doing? Hopefully their youth helps them recover fully. I had a TBI from a car accident in college. It was such a difficult and long recovery.
Posted by imjustafatkid
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
64589 posts
Posted on 6/27/24 at 5:59 pm to
quote:

Source: Both my kids were in gifted, my mother-in-law, sister-in-law, and one of my daughters are gifted teachers, and one of my sisters is a teacher and the other is a superintendent of schools.


I guarantee you that if you researched these classes you will find that they are not tailored to gifted students but instead are tailored to enrichment.

But hey, maybe it's different in your state. I am from Alabama, born and raised, and have a close relative who was a special ed administrator for some years prior to retirement. Gifted programs still exist here in name only. Instead there are enrichment classes that sometimes might be called the gifted program. My kid hated it and the classes were fairly awful so I can understand why.

A real easy way to identify that these are enrichment programs instead of gifted programs is they are dominated by females, with barely any males in the program (my kid's program had one male who was obviously gifted, he hated it too). Gifted programs have a more even breakdown, but enrichment programs put a premium on things like behavior because they aren't gifted programs and are instead just a reward for good students. A gifted program might even have kids who make terrible grades because high IQ people often don't give a crap about making good grades. They're wired different. That's precisely why those programs are important and why we're harming ourselves as a nation by turning them into enrichment classes.
This post was edited on 6/27/24 at 6:03 pm
Posted by Edward Rooney
Member since Jun 2024
269 posts
Posted on 6/27/24 at 6:14 pm to
Starts with a "V" and ends with an "ines"
This post was edited on 6/27/24 at 6:24 pm
Posted by BamaAggiemom
Member since Aug 2019
539 posts
Posted on 6/27/24 at 6:15 pm to
She has a master's in Data Analytics. She really did well in school.

However, she is struggling in the workforce. Between seizures coming back after being gone in college, Covid when she graduated, recession, and employers that won't accommodate, she's struggling. She doesn't have a job currently.

She graduated with the highest GPA in the statistics department of her college.

Posted by SisOfSam
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2018
167 posts
Posted on 6/27/24 at 6:48 pm to
Behavior. I teach self contained Sped and this year had 3 students under the age of 7 who bit, kicked and assaulted me and my paras daily. They have meltdowns where they tear down anything on the walls, flip tables and desks, etc. Meanwhile, you just clear the room of the other students and stand by until the meltdown is over. Yes we suspended them, but after 10 days of suspension in one school year the IEP team must meet (MDR - manifestation determination) to decide if the behavior was a manifestation of their disability. In most cases, these 'behavior' kids have ADHD in addition to Autism, ODD, etc and are classified as Emotional Disturbance students. Since impulsivity is listed in the official medical definition of ADHD, these violent behaviors are determined to be a manifestation of their disability and you cannot expel them but must give them more accomodations , more class restrictions (like a modified schedule or move to a different type of classroom) etc. Basically, the student has many protections, but who is going to protect the teachers and the other students in the class? I wear bite guards on my arms, a face shield to protect me from them spitting in my face, and still come home covered in bruises or bites that break the skin. I even had a student drop kick me so hard it knocked one of my implants out of place. I love my job, I love my students (even the violent ones) but enough is enough. Personally, I have ADD and asked a supervisor after an MDR meeting "So, if little Johnny bites me and I bite back, you won't discipline me since it's a manifestation of my disability (impulsivity)". I got no reply. Hopefully my class this fall will be composed of less violent students.
And for anyone who says I knew the job entails this, my classroom is not designated as an Autism classroom or Emotional Disturbance classroom, just a self contained classroom for K-5. So there are 5 other students in the room trying to learn because they are 3-5 graders who take state testing at the end of the year. They lose so much educational time daily because my paras and I spend so much time dealing with behaviors
Posted by 4cubbies
Member since Sep 2008
60698 posts
Posted on 6/27/24 at 7:50 pm to
quote:

She graduated with the highest GPA in the statistics department of her college.


That’s remarkable! I wish her luck. With her demonstrated resilience and achievements, the right job will find her.
Posted by 19
Flux Capacitor, Fluxing
Member since Nov 2007
35657 posts
Posted on 6/27/24 at 7:51 pm to
Just FYI- a student getting speech therapy only is qualified as sped.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
298305 posts
Posted on 6/27/24 at 7:51 pm to
Schools get money for diagnosis.

Mainstreaming screwed up many classrooms. There's nothing wrong with spec ed studetns having their own classes, separate from the main student body. Thats how it was done back in the day.
Posted by 4cubbies
Member since Sep 2008
60698 posts
Posted on 6/27/24 at 7:57 pm to
quote:

Schools get money for diagnosis.


They get money to provide services according to the IEP.

quote:

There's nothing wrong with spec ed studetns having their own classes, separate from the main student body. Thats how it was done back in the day.


Schools still have self-contained special education classrooms.
Posted by Nutriaitch
Montegut
Member since Apr 2008
10829 posts
Posted on 6/27/24 at 8:02 pm to
the umbrella covers a LOT more now than it did when we were in school.

my oldest son as an example.
he was an excellent reader. was reading multiple grade levels higher than his grade.

could read a book, then tell you everything about it in great detail.
answer any questions you asked about it, give his opinion on it, etc.

could not take a written test to save his freaking life.
even if you verbally asked him every question first and he knew them, the. gave him the written one, bed butcher the written one.

never was diagnosed with anything. took all normal classes just like everyone else. Graduated in top half of his class.
but got a special session for testing.

so he “technically” was listed as Special Ed.


Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
127900 posts
Posted on 6/27/24 at 8:07 pm to
quote:

Behavior. I teach self contained Sped and this year had 3 students under the age of 7 who bit, kicked and assaulted me and my paras daily. They have meltdowns where they tear down anything on the walls, flip tables and desks, etc. Meanwhile, you just clear the room of the other students and stand by until the meltdown is over.


The dirty secret of almost every single public school across the country.

We are sacrificing an entire generation of students on the altar of the idea that the access to education of one little shite trumps the learning of all.
Posted by SisOfSam
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2018
167 posts
Posted on 6/28/24 at 7:06 am to
I'm hoping maybe Cade Brumley will change this, but I don't put much faith in LDOE after John White. Maybe some strong, intelligent members of the Education committee in the LA house can address this - a new Teacher's (& student's) Bill of Rights?
Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
27784 posts
Posted on 6/28/24 at 7:15 am to
quote:

And for anyone who says I knew the job entails this, my classroom is not designated as an Autism classroom or Emotional Disturbance classroom,


Vandy has one of, if not the (Johns Hopkins is the other candidate) best special education programs in the country. My daughter's graduating class was well under 50; it may have been under 30. Not many people start it, and once they start classroom placements junior and senior year they lose a lot of the ones that did. A lot of mainly females start with that major because they think it's all sweet Down kids like the neighbor they knew growing up. She's at a school for students severe enough that they can't be mainstreamed and I don't know how she does it, but she loves it.

But there aren't enough of her, nor will there be unless the pay differential for doing what she does and teaching a bunch of well behaved middle class kids is increased.
This post was edited on 6/28/24 at 7:32 am
Posted by SisOfSam
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2018
167 posts
Posted on 6/28/24 at 7:38 am to
I have seen a constant exit of Sped teachers over the years due to the 'reality' of what we go through and are expected to do with little to no support and the pay. I asked why we can't get hazard pay! Then you have the issue of the lack of people willing to be a Sped para. The pay is extremely low for what they have to endure. Like your daughter, I love what I do and the kids. My husband asked me all the time to quit and I told him I can't do that to my students. Unlike a gen ed classroom I have these students for several years (K through 5th grade) and know them. I must be doing something right. This is the 2nd year in a row that all of my testing grade students have scored Above Goal in all categories on the LEAP Connect. (LEAP Connect is the state test for self contained students and Above Goal is the highest achievement level on the test)
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