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re: Someone explain the Trump fraud case to me?
Posted on 9/28/23 at 5:40 am to ChineseBandit58
Posted on 9/28/23 at 5:40 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
Did they get their part of the contract fulfilled??
quote:
Did the renovation get accomplished on time? and within budget?
sounds like all parties of the contracts were happy with their results to me
only people pissed off are the idiots who want something for nothing
If you insist on throwing strawmen arguments then don't bother to respond.
The crux of the fraud is the rate provided was contingent on the safety. It required 2.5 billion in assets and 50m in liquidity amongst other requirements.
When people invest money they choose varying levels of risk. By lying about his assets he knowingly increased the risk to those investors without an increase in their compensation for that risk.
That is what is fraudulent. That it all worked out and Trump managed not to declare bankruptcy for the umpteenth time was just a lucky happenstance.
This post was edited on 9/28/23 at 5:44 am
1
Posted on 9/28/23 at 5:52 am to dukkbill
quote:
The judge disregarded the expert statement due to lack of definite ness and made the determination based on 2300% percent increase from the values in the record (namely the then tax appraisal and the Trump owned company’s statement of value). The judge did not make a finding on the current or past value of the property. Similar analysis with different facts were performed on other properties
The judge used appraised value and disregarded finding a market value. These are his matters of record.
He’s off by at least over 1000%.
Is that not……. fraud?
Posted on 9/28/23 at 6:04 am to AubieinNC2009
quote:
Saying square footage is 3x as big is fraud. This isnt op lying about fishes or his members size its falsifying applications for loans and credit, i.e. FRAUD.
If the banks are getting their monthly or annual payments of interest on time and Trump hasn’t filed for bankruptcy recently, I would side with it not being criminal in nature, maybe bad faith. But who hasn’t told a credit card company or bank that they make a little extra money to get a higher credit line or larger loan.
Posted on 9/28/23 at 6:10 am to tango029
quote:
just a lucky happenstance.
Same with Ford and Wright bros and Rockefellers and - - - - - -
lucky happenstances.
mixed with genuine financial talent and organizational rigor and intellectual acuity.
but way unlike the Biden/Obama/Clinton rise to billionaire status - base on all their 'strength'
luck happenstance => bless your heart
Posted on 9/28/23 at 6:22 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
Same with Ford and Wright bros and Rockefellers and - - - - - -
lucky happenstances. ?
mixed with genuine financial talent and organizational rigor and intellectual acuity.
but way unlike the Biden/Obama/Clinton rise to billionaire status - base on all their 'strength' ?
luck happenstance => bless your heart
Holy shite are you that stupid? You think Trump is rich because of his financial acuity? That's the most laughably stupid thing someone has said on here in a while.
Fred Trump had financial acuity and built generational wealth. Donald Trump inherited his fortune and has grown it at less than if he'd just put the money in a S&P 500 account. Let that sink in a moment. If he'd taken his money and just put it in a mutual fund account, he would have more money today. A drunk chimpanzee could have managed that money better.
Financial geniuses exceed the market return by factors or 10, 100 and 1000. They don't call people who get less then the market a financial genius.
Posted on 9/28/23 at 6:25 am to Tarps99
quote:
But who hasn’t told a credit card company or bank that they make a little extra money to get a higher credit line or larger loan.
You often tell the credit card companies you make 23x what you're currently making and don't see how then extending you that line of credit would be risky?
If it had been a few percent here and there, nobody would care. When you're valuations are off by factors of up to 2300%, it's an issue.
Posted on 9/28/23 at 6:28 am to tango029
quote:
A drunk chimpanzee could have
also beaten the DNC and all their accolades too.
Let's hear it for drunk chimpanzees !1!!1
drunk chimpanzees = still far superior to any DEMOCRAT of the past 60 years.
Posted on 9/28/23 at 6:38 am to deltaland
Trump allegedly overinflated (or undervalued) properties for loans and taxes.
Neither the banks/lenders, nor tax assessors, took his claimed valuations at face value. Each exercised (or should have exercised) due diligence in determining actual value.
Thus, fraud
Neither the banks/lenders, nor tax assessors, took his claimed valuations at face value. Each exercised (or should have exercised) due diligence in determining actual value.
Thus, fraud
Posted on 9/28/23 at 6:38 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
also beaten the DNC and all their accolades too.
Let's hear it for drunk chimpanzees !1!!1 ? ? ?
drunk chimpanzees = still far superior to any DEMOCRAT of the past 60 years. ?
Posted on 9/28/23 at 6:48 am to tango029
quote:
2300%,
quote:
23x
Using these numbers shows how stupid ate up with TDS you are.
If you want to throw stone around insults, there you go.
Posted on 9/28/23 at 6:55 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
drunk chimpanzee
So we get to choose from a drunk chimpanzee who really doesnt have genuine financial talent who talks a bunch of shite and a moron who can barely talk. Sad, sad, sad.
quote:
organizational rigor
Thanks for the laugh though!
Posted on 9/28/23 at 7:05 am to deltaland
All you need to know is the Cabal is engaged in a desperate witch hunt to stop the Trump Train.
By Cabal ,I mean every parasitic money-draining 'Great Reset'/Crook/Socialist-marxist/LGBT/Warmongering/Climate Change/Groomer/Abortion radicals in the history of this country - and I'm not exaggerating. They're enraged - Trump interrupted the money flow. We want our traditional values and our country back and President Trump will help us.
Okay, demoniacs 1 2 3 Go - now rage, howl, scream, and curse.
Trump 2024 - They're really after us, He's just in the way
By Cabal ,I mean every parasitic money-draining 'Great Reset'/Crook/Socialist-marxist/LGBT/Warmongering/Climate Change/Groomer/Abortion radicals in the history of this country - and I'm not exaggerating. They're enraged - Trump interrupted the money flow. We want our traditional values and our country back and President Trump will help us.
Okay, demoniacs 1 2 3 Go - now rage, howl, scream, and curse.
Trump 2024 - They're really after us, He's just in the way
Posted on 9/28/23 at 7:07 am to Meauxjeaux
quote:
Using these numbers shows how stupid ate up with TDS you are.
If you want to throw stone around insults, there you go.
You can use whatever numbers you like, Mar-a-lago was not worth half a billion dollars in 2011. It wasn't even close.
If you need to kneejerk respond that everyone not doing mental gymnastics to try to justify this as TDS, that's on you.
Guy committed fraud plain and simple.
Posted on 9/28/23 at 7:11 am to TDTOM
When there’s actual paper work that shows that’s exactly what he did…
Posted on 9/28/23 at 7:18 am to AubieinNC2009
quote:what a moron
AubieinNC2009
Ever buy a home? Your post says you are a permanent renter
Posted on 9/28/23 at 7:43 am to Tarps99
The action is civil, not criminal. There are not any incarceration perils, but there are some rather stiff injunctive penalties, including the dissolution of the business entities. The fine of 250 MM is also pretty high, but may not be as big to the organization as it would be to most persons and businesses. I didn’t see in the order if that amount correlates to any difference in interest between payments d rates and presumptive offered rates ( if that matters to anyone)
Posted on 9/28/23 at 7:55 am to dukkbill
duk, how can an order of dissolution come about as part of this trial?
As a lay person and business owner, this seems like La La Land.
Is this a state of New York thing?
As a lay person and business owner, this seems like La La Land.
Is this a state of New York thing?
Posted on 9/28/23 at 7:56 am to Meauxjeaux
quote:
The judge used appraised value and disregarded finding a market value. These are his matters of record.
I may not understand your point. The judge would not determine a market value. He would allow evidence of what the party believed the market value to be. A jury would not be charged to determine the market value either. It would just be charged to determine if the defendants reasonably believed that value. It’s not a question of the value, it’s whether someone reasonably believed the value when they represented it
The defendants didn’t offer any evidence on the basis of belief, just the statement that a real estate agent could find a buyer (at least according to the judges decision). I’d hope most judges would allow that testimony, but the judge disallowed consideration based on NY law, and thus determined no reasonable person could conclude that a statement of value that is 2300% above appraised value was not knowingly false with an intent to deceive
That will get appealed, but it’s likely without impact. The trial is jury waived, so if the testimony would be allowed, the judge would still make the determination based on what he reasonably believe ( as opposed to any reasonable person)
IMHO, the other appeal is more impacful. The likely reason the defense didn’t provide any contemporaneous evidence of value is because they didn’t have it. There record retention policy likely doesn’t go back that far. If the appeals court ruled that other evidence is too aged to be used, there could be less evidence of value by the AG, and thus, they couldn’t make their prima facile case
This post was edited on 9/28/23 at 7:58 am
Posted on 9/28/23 at 7:58 am to dukkbill
quote:
I didn’t see in the order if that amount correlates to any difference in interest between payments d rates and presumptive offered rates ( if that matters to anyone)
If I recall correctly that the rate differential was the basis for the fine. 2% vs 8%.
Posted on 9/28/23 at 8:05 am to deltaland
The real problem here is Donald Trump is Hitler. Therefore anything goes.
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