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So the Branch Davidians initiated an ambush on the ATF at Mount Carmel...

Posted on 5/3/20 at 11:38 am
Posted by Wolfhound45
Hanging with Chicken in Lurkistan
Member since Nov 2009
120000 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 11:38 am
By firing through the closed front door? This is what I am supposed to believe? That they knew that the ATF was coming and this was the best plan they had? Does anyone know how to initiate a successful ambush particularly when you have time and know the terrain and can properly prepare it?






The entire case against the David Koresh and his followers has been they initiated the violent confrontation when the ATF arrived. I finally watched “Waco: Rules of Engagement” and saw the testimony of ATF agent Jim Cavanaugh. His testimony before Congress;
quote:

``The Davidians fired first and I am sickened by any other assertion,? Cavanaugh said. ``If I thought an ATF agent would drive up to a structure and start firing, I’d throw my badge in the garbage,? he added. ``It didn’t happen.?

AP - Agent Denies ATF Fired First at Waco, Surrender Offer Called Ruse
This is supported by the account from the official ATF website;

ATF Fallen Agent Page - Conway C. LeBleu
quote:

On February 28, 1993, Special Agent Conway Charles LeBleu was part of a large, specially trained and well disciplined force of ATF special agents from the Dallas, Houston and New Orleans Field Divisions; assigned to execute Federal warrants at the Branch Davidian Compound. Unfortunately, the Davidians had been alerted to the impending raid by a local postman, who was also a cult member. When the agents arrived, the fanatical, heavily armed, cult members were waiting in ambush as the agents disembarked from their vehicles. Koresh was outside on the porch, but as the agents approached telling him they had a search warrant and instructing him to "get down," he retreated inside the house. When the agents approached, a burst of gunfire was fired through the door, wounding one agent.
If the Davidians knew the ATF was coming and did not have individuals in the four windows above and prepared to put enfilading fire on them the moment they were still in single file on the road into the compound then they do not understand what the concept of an ambush is. And they let the ATF deploy from their vehicles into a linear formation and initiated the ambush through the closed door where you cannot even be sure of what you are shooting at is sheer stupidity.

And yet in the opening seconds of the firefight there are only bullet holes in the front door and no bullet holes or indications of Davidians in the windows above. So either the Davidians were grossly incompetent in their tactical employment or they did not initiate the firefight. Their entire plan was to fire through the door based upon the information from the ATF site.

Add to that the Davidians are the ones who called 911 to stop the shooting and it becomes even more suspect. And the fact that this right bullet riddled steel door could not be recovered as evidence after the fire while the left door was is beyond ridiculous.

This is just insane that we still believe the narrative these innocent people deserved to be murdered by their own government. Just incredible.

Never forget.





This post was edited on 5/4/20 at 8:13 am
Posted by Man With A Plan
Member since Nov 2019
899 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 11:39 am to
It was a psyop LINK
Posted by Erin Go Bragh
Beyond the Pale
Member since Dec 2007
14916 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 11:40 am to
quote:

I am sickened by any other assertion

Wonder if Ruby Ridge sickens him as well. That was a case of murder and no one paid for it.
Posted by Wolfhound45
Hanging with Chicken in Lurkistan
Member since Nov 2009
120000 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 11:55 am to
quote:

Wonder if Ruby Ridge sickens him as well. That was a case of murder and no one paid for it.
Same thought process. They deserved it.
Posted by Lsut81
Member since Jun 2005
80150 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 11:57 am to
Koresh was insane, but the fed killed 25 kids... Blood is on their hands because some inside ATF and FBI wanted their little war and moment in the spotlight.
Posted by Wolfhound45
Hanging with Chicken in Lurkistan
Member since Nov 2009
120000 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 11:58 am to
quote:

ATF and FBI wanted their little war and moment in the spotlight.
It was asserted in Waco: Rules of Engagement that the ATF budget hearings were scheduled for a week after the raid was planned. If true that is more than a bit suspect.
Posted by NIH
Member since Aug 2008
112617 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 11:59 am to
It’s a shame it has taken this long for Republicans to finally be skeptical of the police at federal, state, and local levels
Posted by CapperVin
Member since Apr 2013
10545 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 11:59 am to
White knighting for a lunatic who was knocking up 12 yr old girls on the reg?
Posted by Wolfhound45
Hanging with Chicken in Lurkistan
Member since Nov 2009
120000 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:00 pm to
Seems like the cure was much worse than the disease.
Posted by Apollyon
Member since Dec 2019
2124 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:03 pm to
quote:

White knighting for a lunatic who was knocking up 12 yr old girls on the reg?


Now give us your hot take on Ruby Ridge.
Posted by antibarner
Member since Oct 2009
23711 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:04 pm to
I wouldn't usually say this about someone, but may you be burning in Hell, Janet Reno.
Posted by cajunangelle
Member since Oct 2012
146714 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:08 pm to
Posted by NIH
Member since Aug 2008
112617 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:08 pm to
Ahh yes, the government protected those kids by delivering them a fiery death

Retard
Posted by Wolfhound45
Hanging with Chicken in Lurkistan
Member since Nov 2009
120000 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:08 pm to
Interesting that local authorities investigated David Koresh prior to the confrontation and were unable to find any illegal activities. After the failed raid by the ATF and during the subsequent failed siege by the FBI was the narrative established of his criminal behavior. All based on the accusation of one person in their subsequent congressional testimony. Of course, by then he was unable to defend himself.

Would have loved to have seen him arrested and tried instead. But the ATF did not want it that way. You don’t make big time budgets with small time arrests.
This post was edited on 5/3/20 at 12:15 pm
Posted by Lsut81
Member since Jun 2005
80150 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:09 pm to
quote:

White knighting for a lunatic who was knocking up 12 yr old girls on the reg?



Yeah, lets just kill the kids instead... Makes complete sense.
Posted by Who_Dat_Tiger
Member since Nov 2015
17441 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:11 pm to
Just finished watching Waco on Netflix and surprisingly seemed to give an honest recollection of events painting the ATF and FBI in a very bad light.
Posted by Kracka
Lafayette, Louisiana
Member since Aug 2004
40798 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:12 pm to
Are there any good documentaries on Ruby Ridge that y’all know of? It’s very fascinating to me.
Posted by Wolfhound45
Hanging with Chicken in Lurkistan
Member since Nov 2009
120000 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:12 pm to
quote:

CapperVin
Don’t worry, I will white knight for you when the Feds trump up charges and execute a no knock warrant against you too. Because you deserve to be considered innocent until proven guilty as well.
Posted by Big4SALTbro
Member since Jun 2019
14895 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:12 pm to
Which William Barr helped make sure no one but citizens paid.
Posted by cajunangelle
Member since Oct 2012
146714 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:12 pm to
The media at the time justified it. I knew watching it LIVE on TV on a base overseas something was wrong...no matter how they justified he was a cult and what a bad man he was.

Why did they do this? What if some guy in Utah right now had many wives and someone presumed it was incest. Do you have a military tank knock out windows and blow them up on fire?
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