- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
So the Branch Davidians initiated an ambush on the ATF at Mount Carmel...
Posted on 5/3/20 at 11:38 am
Posted on 5/3/20 at 11:38 am
By firing through the closed front door? This is what I am supposed to believe? That they knew that the ATF was coming and this was the best plan they had? Does anyone know how to initiate a successful ambush particularly when you have time and know the terrain and can properly prepare it?
The entire case against the David Koresh and his followers has been they initiated the violent confrontation when the ATF arrived. I finally watched “Waco: Rules of Engagement” and saw the testimony of ATF agent Jim Cavanaugh. His testimony before Congress;
ATF Fallen Agent Page - Conway C. LeBleu
And yet in the opening seconds of the firefight there are only bullet holes in the front door and no bullet holes or indications of Davidians in the windows above. So either the Davidians were grossly incompetent in their tactical employment or they did not initiate the firefight. Their entire plan was to fire through the door based upon the information from the ATF site.
Add to that the Davidians are the ones who called 911 to stop the shooting and it becomes even more suspect. And the fact that this right bullet riddled steel door could not be recovered as evidence after the fire while the left door was is beyond ridiculous.
This is just insane that we still believe the narrative these innocent people deserved to be murdered by their own government. Just incredible.
Never forget.
The entire case against the David Koresh and his followers has been they initiated the violent confrontation when the ATF arrived. I finally watched “Waco: Rules of Engagement” and saw the testimony of ATF agent Jim Cavanaugh. His testimony before Congress;
quote:This is supported by the account from the official ATF website;
``The Davidians fired first and I am sickened by any other assertion,? Cavanaugh said. ``If I thought an ATF agent would drive up to a structure and start firing, I’d throw my badge in the garbage,? he added. ``It didn’t happen.?
AP - Agent Denies ATF Fired First at Waco, Surrender Offer Called Ruse
ATF Fallen Agent Page - Conway C. LeBleu
quote:If the Davidians knew the ATF was coming and did not have individuals in the four windows above and prepared to put enfilading fire on them the moment they were still in single file on the road into the compound then they do not understand what the concept of an ambush is. And they let the ATF deploy from their vehicles into a linear formation and initiated the ambush through the closed door where you cannot even be sure of what you are shooting at is sheer stupidity.
On February 28, 1993, Special Agent Conway Charles LeBleu was part of a large, specially trained and well disciplined force of ATF special agents from the Dallas, Houston and New Orleans Field Divisions; assigned to execute Federal warrants at the Branch Davidian Compound. Unfortunately, the Davidians had been alerted to the impending raid by a local postman, who was also a cult member. When the agents arrived, the fanatical, heavily armed, cult members were waiting in ambush as the agents disembarked from their vehicles. Koresh was outside on the porch, but as the agents approached telling him they had a search warrant and instructing him to "get down," he retreated inside the house. When the agents approached, a burst of gunfire was fired through the door, wounding one agent.
And yet in the opening seconds of the firefight there are only bullet holes in the front door and no bullet holes or indications of Davidians in the windows above. So either the Davidians were grossly incompetent in their tactical employment or they did not initiate the firefight. Their entire plan was to fire through the door based upon the information from the ATF site.
Add to that the Davidians are the ones who called 911 to stop the shooting and it becomes even more suspect. And the fact that this right bullet riddled steel door could not be recovered as evidence after the fire while the left door was is beyond ridiculous.
This is just insane that we still believe the narrative these innocent people deserved to be murdered by their own government. Just incredible.
Never forget.
This post was edited on 5/4/20 at 8:13 am
Posted on 5/3/20 at 11:40 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
I am sickened by any other assertion
Wonder if Ruby Ridge sickens him as well. That was a case of murder and no one paid for it.
Posted on 5/3/20 at 11:55 am to Erin Go Bragh
quote:Same thought process. They deserved it.
Wonder if Ruby Ridge sickens him as well. That was a case of murder and no one paid for it.
Posted on 5/3/20 at 11:57 am to Wolfhound45
Koresh was insane, but the fed killed 25 kids... Blood is on their hands because some inside ATF and FBI wanted their little war and moment in the spotlight.
Posted on 5/3/20 at 11:58 am to Lsut81
quote:It was asserted in Waco: Rules of Engagement that the ATF budget hearings were scheduled for a week after the raid was planned. If true that is more than a bit suspect.
ATF and FBI wanted their little war and moment in the spotlight.
Posted on 5/3/20 at 11:59 am to Lsut81
It’s a shame it has taken this long for Republicans to finally be skeptical of the police at federal, state, and local levels
Posted on 5/3/20 at 11:59 am to Wolfhound45
White knighting for a lunatic who was knocking up 12 yr old girls on the reg?
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:00 pm to CapperVin
Seems like the cure was much worse than the disease.
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:03 pm to CapperVin
quote:
White knighting for a lunatic who was knocking up 12 yr old girls on the reg?
Now give us your hot take on Ruby Ridge.
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:04 pm to Wolfhound45
I wouldn't usually say this about someone, but may you be burning in Hell, Janet Reno.
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:08 pm to CapperVin
Ahh yes, the government protected those kids by delivering them a fiery death
Retard
Retard
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:08 pm to CapperVin
Interesting that local authorities investigated David Koresh prior to the confrontation and were unable to find any illegal activities. After the failed raid by the ATF and during the subsequent failed siege by the FBI was the narrative established of his criminal behavior. All based on the accusation of one person in their subsequent congressional testimony. Of course, by then he was unable to defend himself.
Would have loved to have seen him arrested and tried instead. But the ATF did not want it that way. You don’t make big time budgets with small time arrests.
Would have loved to have seen him arrested and tried instead. But the ATF did not want it that way. You don’t make big time budgets with small time arrests.
This post was edited on 5/3/20 at 12:15 pm
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:09 pm to CapperVin
quote:
White knighting for a lunatic who was knocking up 12 yr old girls on the reg?
Yeah, lets just kill the kids instead... Makes complete sense.
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:11 pm to Wolfhound45
Just finished watching Waco on Netflix and surprisingly seemed to give an honest recollection of events painting the ATF and FBI in a very bad light.
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:12 pm to Erin Go Bragh
Are there any good documentaries on Ruby Ridge that y’all know of? It’s very fascinating to me.
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:12 pm to CapperVin
quote:Don’t worry, I will white knight for you when the Feds trump up charges and execute a no knock warrant against you too. Because you deserve to be considered innocent until proven guilty as well.
CapperVin
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:12 pm to Erin Go Bragh
Which William Barr helped make sure no one but citizens paid.
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:12 pm to Wolfhound45
The media at the time justified it. I knew watching it LIVE on TV on a base overseas something was wrong...no matter how they justified he was a cult and what a bad man he was.
Why did they do this? What if some guy in Utah right now had many wives and someone presumed it was incest. Do you have a military tank knock out windows and blow them up on fire?
Why did they do this? What if some guy in Utah right now had many wives and someone presumed it was incest. Do you have a military tank knock out windows and blow them up on fire?
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News