re: Seth MacFarlane On SCOTUS Cake Ruling: Just Like Not Seating Black People

I don't balk at that comparison. I welcome it.

NO ONE has a right to force me to do business with them. PERIOD. Why anyone ever bought into that bullshite in the first place is beyond me, a freaking child knows that if they own a toy, they get to decide who can play with that toy, not the other way around.

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So now we have to tolerate discrimination to show how tolerant we are? Nice try

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We already covered this.

YOU already support tolerating discrimination. You just want to be the only one allowed to.

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MacFarlane On SCOTUS Cake Ruling: Just Like Not Seating Black People by L.A.

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public transportation vs private sector

no. not the same.

Feeling over facts is never a good thing unless you're trying to sell someone something.

It's never good for policy.

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So now we have to tolerate discrimination to show how tolerant we are? Nice try

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Who was the government forcing to act in this case?

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Is it? On what basis is homosexuality objectively immoral? I disagree with your initial premise

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It is objectively immoral because it violates the objective (from a human perspective) moral law of God.

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Not every act in nature furthers propagation of the species, especially in species that are further advanced.

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Sexuality is the most crucial act in nature that furthers the propagation of the species, aside from avoiding death long enough to reproduce, I suppose.

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Who is saying it should be protected?

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Protection is at the heart of this very issue. If homosexuals aren't protected, it wouldn't necessarily be wrong/illegal to discriminate against them.

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My argument is that the government has no reasonable basis to not recognize it.

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Sure they do. Beyond the issue of morality itself, the government has a vested interest in the future of this country, which includes birth rates. If homosexuality is not tolerated but accepted and if anti-homosexual sentiments are censored and derided, that creates a fertile environment for more people to embrace homosexual lifestyles to the exclusion of heterosexuality, which is necessary for natural procreation.

There was a thread on this board a week ago (I think) that talked about how the next generation of kids polled are saying they are not heterosexual and that heterosexuals may be in the minority sometime in the future. That's a big concern for the government, I would think.

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In either case, I don't think homosexuality should be protected. In fact, I thin it should be shunned. Saying it exists in nature is not a good argument for anything, IMO.

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Yes, it is. The anti-homosexuality movement in America and claims of its immorality are almost exclusively based off of Old Testament religious nonsense and yet we have found--thank God for science--that same-sex behavior is due at least largely in part to our natural makeup and encoding. Aren't we, after all, made in the image of God?

It takes a great deal of mental gymnastics and downright bullshitting to make sense of a world where we're both told by our Creator that homosexuality is an abomination and that gay people should be put to death and yet a not-at-all insignificant percentage of people born into this world have been created as gay abominations.

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Since homosexuality is an extreme abnormality within the natural realm and reduces the likelihood of propagation, it should be shunned and even exterminated if the "goal" of further the species is to be maintained.

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Well then it's a damn good thing we have an evolved consciousness and that we do not subscribe to Darwinian evolution as a way of living and navigating this planet.

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At the very least, there is no moral reason why it should be accepted as nothing more than a genetic abnormality.

In either case, I don't think homosexuality should be protected. In fact, I thin it should be shunned.

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Inherited genetic mutations are abnormalities that play a role in cancer. For good reasons, we don't shun people with cancer caused by these mutations, we don't tell them they can't have sex and further dilute the gene pool with these mutations and we don't explain away their condition because "there is no moral reason why we should accept you and your abnormality."

I'm not saying all of homosexual behavior is pre-programmed but certainly much if not most of it is, and if you can't see why that throws a wrench into your Christian/religions dogmatic, iron-age argument, well, it's no wonder your side of the debate has continued to clash with and lose against modernity.

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Yes, it is.

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It's not, for the reasons I already provided.

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The anti-homosexuality movement in America and claims of its immorality are almost exclusively based off of Old Testament religious nonsense

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It's not nonsense. We have a standard to judge moral rightness and wrongness that extends beyond ourselves (moral relativism).

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and yet we have found--thank God for science--that same-sex behavior is due at least largely in part to our natural makeup and encoding. Aren't we, after all, made in the image of God?

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Humans are made in the image of God, yes, but due to the effects of sin, we are more like a broken mirror that hideously distorts that image.

What the Bible teaches is that lust for someone who isn't your spouse is a sin (which is one reason why marriage exists, as a release value for sexual urges) and acting on sexual desire with anyone who isn't your spouse is a sin. Whether you have a seemingly natural inclination towards lust of a man or a woman is irrelevant in terms of what constitutes sin. Lust and sexual activity outside of the confines of marriage is sinful.

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It takes a great deal of mental gymnastics and downright bullshiteting to make sense of a world where we're both told by our Creator that homosexuality is an abomination and that gay people should be put to death and yet a not-at-all insignificant percentage of people born into this world have been created as gay abominations.

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It's no more of a stretch than to believe that all humans have inherited a sinful nature and a proclivity to sin in all sorts of ways.

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Well then it's a damn good thing we have an evolved consciousness and that we do not subscribe to Darwinian evolution.

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If you want to discard Darwinian evolution then you have absolutely no leg to stand on in terms of what you think is acceptable behavior or not. I could at least give the naturalist that reasoning even if it is wrong, but to throw that one out, you are left with nothing but your own preferences which are neither right nor wrong, better nor worse than anyone else's, even mine.

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Inherited genetic mutations are abnormalities that play a role in cancer. For good reasons, we don't shun people with cancer caused by these mutations, we don't tell them they can't have sex and further dilute the gene pool with these mutations and we don't explain away their condition because "there is no moral reason why we should accept you and your abnormality."

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Perhaps we should if we want to be consistent with a standard. I have a reason not to shun people with cancer because my standard isn't based on evolutionary biology.

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I'm not saying all of homosexual behavior is pre-programmed but certainly much if not most of it is, and if you can't see why that throws a wrench into your Christian/religions dogmatic argument, well, it's no wonder your side of the debate has continued to clash with and lose against modernity.

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You have a misunderstanding about what the Bible teaches so you look at a paradox and believe it to be a contradiction. Even by your own admission you claim that homosexual behavior is at least in part not pre-programmed. But even if everyone was born with an inclination one way or the other, the question is about what we should do about that.

Should alcoholics who inherited a predisposition to alcoholism (either by nature or nurture) drink themselves to death or should we encourage them to stop drinking? Heterosexuals are just as inclined to lust and perform sexual immorality as homosexuals, yet the Bible calls all people to harness their sexual desires into the confines of heterosexual marriage or to suppress their desires by fleeing from things that tempt them to sin.

What is the relevance of the recent discussion in this thread as it pertains to the case being discussed originally